Clutch/Transmission question

[Citizen]

My DeLorean sits in my garage most days, but does get driven from time to time. Although not driven much, it does get started and/or moved around no less than once per week (sometimes more often). So one day I go out to move the car, and I can’t get the 5-speed in any gear. Naturally I’ve fully depressed the clutch pedal, but still can’t get it in any forward gear. Reverse grinds, so that doesn’t work either. It’s like the clutch isn’t pushed in at all, but it is. Bummer.

Couple days later, I try again. This time I can get it into 5th with work, and then I come down through the gears until I can finally get it into 1st, but it takes almost all my strength. Reverse still grinds. It’s like I have almost no clutch.

I can turn a wrench, but there are a few things I stay away from. One of them is transmissions, mostly because I don’t know what I’m doing (don’t know the internals), so I leave that to the pros. But I have changed master and slave clutch cylinders on a number of other car (never on a Delorean). To me, the problem I described above indicates a clutch master & slave job is in order.

Would any of you pros agree or disagree? Have any other insights?

Thanks in advance.

Thomas

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[DCUK Martin]

Check level of clutch fluid and a puddle under the transmission or in the driver's footwell where the clutch master cylinder goes through the floor.

Has the clutch master cylinder ever been replaced? It's a common failure item if original (not due to poor design but 30+ years of age and lack of fluid changes).

[Citizen]

Check level of clutch fluid and a puddle under the transmission or in the driver's footwell where the clutch master cylinder goes through the floor.

Has the clutch master cylinder ever been replaced? It's a common failure item if original (not due to poor design but 30+ years of age and lack of fluid changes).

Forgot to mention those things.

Fluid level is topped off. No puddle under the car or in the footwell. To my knowledge, the clutch M&S have never been replaced or the fluid changed (I've had the car for about 10 years). Fluid looks very dirty.

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[DCUK Martin]

wipe your finger around the little crevice under where the master cylinder goes through the floor - does it come away wet?

[Ron]

If it shifts OK with the engine off, it sounds like you are on the right track.
You might double check the level and condition of the gear oil too...

[Citizen]

wipe your finger around the little crevice under where the master cylinder goes through the floor - does it come away wet?

Dry as a bone.

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[dn010]

Don't try to force gears or you may end up breaking your shift lever and having even more of a headache. When you push the pedal, is it soft to where the it just goes right to the floor or is there resistance behind it? My D sat for months, I had to pump the clutch pedal probably a hundred times before it started to build up pressure - not sure if it was due to air or just corrosion in the master/slave cylinder but eventually it freed up.

[Citizen]

If it shifts OK with the engine off, it sounds like you are on the right track.
You might double check the level and condition of the gear oil too...

Shifts pretty good with the engine off, all gears except for 5th (had to press the clutch in).

Checking the gear oil is something I've never done on a DeLorean. I will do that, but probably need to research how first.

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[Citizen]

When you push the pedal, is it soft to where the it just goes right to the floor or is there resistance behind it?

There is resistance. I think about normal...not too hard, not too soft.

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[dn010]

I'd have someone press the clutch pedal while you watch the slave cylinder/fork to see if it engages fully. Do you have the plastic or braided hydraulic line between your master and slave cylinders?

[Citizen]

I'd have someone press the clutch pedal while you watch the slave cylinder/fork to see if it engages fully.

Will have to wait until the wife gets up for that one, but will do.


Do you have the plastic or braided hydraulic line between your master and slave cylinders?

Braided. No obvious leaks that I can see.

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[Ron]

Shifts pretty good with the engine off, all gears except for 5th (had to press the clutch in).

Checking the gear oil is something I've never done on a DeLorean. I will do that, but probably need to research how first.

...yeah, that sounds like a release problem.

There are two plugs listed as #35 here (http://store.delorean.com/c-380-4-1-1-gearbox-casing.aspx) one is for draining, the other to check/fill...you simply add gear oil until it starts to overflow.

Did you notice the fluid in the reservoir being dark before you topped it off"? Low?

+1 on the plastic line.

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Dan, I have an auto, but for future reference, have you ever measured/know how much travel there is when measuring at the tip of the fork?

[dn010]

Dan, I have an auto, but for future reference, have you ever measured/know how much travel there is when measuring at the tip of the fork?

I can go out and take a measurement. When I did mine, I could just tell the fork wasn't going all the way and the only way I knew for sure is while my wife was holding the clutch, I took a pry bar and was able to push the fork the rest of the way. With it working as normal, I'm unable to pry it any more as it is already all the way engaged.

[dn010]

Just measured: with a tape measure going from the bottom of the slave cylinder driver side mounting bolt to the front edge of the fork, mine moves 7/16".

[Ron]

Just measured: with a tape measure going from the bottom of the slave cylinder driver side mounting bolt to the front edge of the fork, mine moves 7/16".Thanks! I would have thought it more...now I have something to go by just in case.

[DMCMW Dave]

Flush and bleed the system. If it works now, there was air in it. If the master/slave are original, the new flush/bleed will likely cause them to fail anyway, but you'll know it was a hydraulic problem.

Very occasionally a master will fail internally and not leak externally. If that is the case the fork will not move as much as noted above.

Even more occasionally an original pressure plate will fail. They can get rusty and just go bad.

[Citizen]

Thanks Dave, and to everyone else that commented. I'll try flushing the system first, then replacing the master/slave. Then if that doesn't work, I'll consider the pressure plate.


Very occasionally a master will fail internally and not leak externally. If that is the case the fork will not move as much as noted above.
Actually, this is what I suspect...




Even more occasionally an original pressure plate will fail. They can get rusty and just go bad.
...although it could be this, since the car is 30+ years old and not driven too much.



Thanks again to all.

Thomas

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[kobachi]

I had a very similar issue about a year ago and it was indeed a failed clutch master cylinder. My slave cylinder failed a few weeks later and my master brake cylinder another few weeks later. Replace them all while you're in there!

[Citizen]

I had a very similar issue about a year ago and it was indeed a failed clutch master cylinder. My slave cylinder failed a few weeks later and my master brake cylinder another few weeks later. Replace them all while you're in there!

Sounds like good advice to me.

Due to other things, I'm just now getting around to starting. I just took out the two panels inside the trunk to gain access to the MC. Boy, it looks tight in there.

Question: Do I need to remove the brake cylinder first, so to get good access to the MC, or remove the steering linkage?

Thomas

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[DMCMW Dave]

Boy, it looks tight in there.

Question: Do I need to remove the brake cylinder first, so to get good access to the MC, or remove the steering linkage?

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Neither. You can actually get at everything from underneath, but in either case you don't remove anything but the master itself.

[Citizen]

Neither. You can actually get at everything from underneath, but in either case you don't remove anything but the master itself.

Great! Thanks much, Dave.

[Citizen]

UPDATE: Well, I know it’s been a while, and I still haven’t done the MC/SC replacement yet. I’ve just been too busy with other things, you know, like DCS 2014...

Anyway, I decided to at least bleed the SC. I did so and it worked very well. Bled with just three pumps on the clutch pedal, and now I can get into all 5 gears easy as pie with the engine running. Reverse too. I can’t believe how well it worked. Wow, what a difference.

But boy is that SC hard to get too. I could see it with a flashlight from the top of the engine, but I had to climb onto the back of the car and rest on the engine to see and reach it. So I decided to construct a simple brace using 2x4, 2x6 & 2x8’s. Here is a diagram:
28501

This brace let me lean over the engine, putting my 200 lbs. of weight on the brace, not the rear fascia (the last thing I need is a sagging rear fascia). Has anyone else had to do this? Here’s a picture.
28500

I know someday I’ll have to change out the two cylinders, but for now it is working and I seem to have lots of clutch room.

Thomas

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