Stopping distance

[08087]

Does anyone know what the stopping distance is from 60 MPH in a Delorean?

I did a search but came up empty.

[content22207]

158 feet (Road & Track Dec 1981, Gold Portfolio p. 85).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[WelmoedJ]

Does anyone know what the stopping distance is from 60 MPH in a Delorean?

I did a search but came up empty.

The stopping distance is mainly depending on the type of brakes/brake material you have and you and your foot.

You well know that we don't have ABS or whatever anti-blocking system is in new cars.
So you foot has to do that braking/unlocking/braking sequence.
The better you can do that in an emergency, the better you are able to stop without hitting anything.

Material wise:
Stock to the bone...... way too long!
Almost worn and stock ............ even worse.
New material and well maintained? Most often right in time.

All of this is probably why you can't find numbers.

[Bitsyncmaster]

As long as your brakes are not overheated they should lock up the wheels. So the tire friction and the weight of the car determine the stopping distance (panic stop).

[content22207]

"[DeLorean] control in panic stop...fair" (Road & Track Dec 1981, Gold Portfolio p. 85).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DeLorean]

Also note, that a true "lock em up panic stop" will yield a worse stopping distance than threshold braking. On the butt-meter, while threshold braking with the DeLorean, I find the brakes to be "good", however on back roads fast driving (depending on how agressive I am being) - the brakes can and do heat up pretty fast and start working worse. I know when I am being too hard on it by the amount of smell that emanates from the brakes :lol: I have ceramic pads, which should in theory be worlds better than the original pads.

This with a standard PRV-6... I'd hate to think how poorly they would work if the car had an extra 50 HP and 100 lb/ft (an LPT turbo with about 6 PSI would likely get the PRV into this range)

[David T]

The brakes are heavily biased to the front. This means you should notice front wheels lock-up before the rears. This is necessary because if you lock up the rear wheels and the back starts to swing around you will not be able to stop it because if the very high Polar Moment due to the large mass of the engine behind the rear wheels. In simple language if the rear starts to slide you will not be able to stop it quick enough to regain control before the car spins. All stopping tests were conducted straight line. Do not attempt to panic stop any other way in a Delorean. Of course all tests are conducted "stock" in a well maintained car. This means these are optimistic stopping distances and a worn-out car with aftermarket parts may not do as well. A lot of additional weight (luggage, passenger, etc) will only make things worse. By today's standards 158 feet is not very good. 110 feet is more like it but without ABS 158 isn't too bad.
David Teitelbaum

[DCUK Martin]

Readjusting the bias towards the rear as well as providing bigger vented rotors and 4-pots all round make a massive difference :smile:

http://www.delorean.co.uk/delorean_performance.html

[08087]

This with a standard PRV-6... I'd hate to think how poorly they would work if the car had an extra 50 HP and 100 lb/ft (an LPT turbo with about 6 PSI would likely get the PRV into this range)

60-0 stopping distance is 60-0 and HP does not matter.

Thanks for all the fine info, 158 beats my dads old Ford Falcon with 170 ft. but you are correct it is not good. May have to look into new breaks when I get my "D".

[dvonk]

+1. if the engine had more mass than a standard PRV it would matter, but not simply HP.

[DeLorean]

60-0 stopping distance is 60-0 and HP does not matter.

Once, sure. When driving the car hard on hack roads, absolutely not. The rate at which the car is capable of accelerating is directly proportionate to how quickly they well heat up, and start to not work well.

[08087]

Once, sure. When driving the car hard on hack roads, absolutely not. The rate at which the car is capable of accelerating is directly proportionate to how quickly they well heat up, and start to not work well.

I'm certainly not looking for an argument but again HP has no direct effect on stopping distance. If brakes heat up no matter what the HP is they will fade and have longer stopping distances. Sure with more HP you can speed up faster but stopping the car from 60, HP has no bearing.

What weighs more a hundred pounds of bricks or a hundred pounds of feathers?

[content22207]

One thing more HP will do is incite faster speeds, hence longer stopping distances -- just like the Boo Boos with 4WD/AWD who drive faster on icy roads than those of us with 2WD, inspired by their added traction but conveniently forgetting that their stopping ability is basically the same.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DeLorean]

You could have a 1000 HP supra, with stock brakes and yes, it would stop the same as a standard one, once. "Stopping distance" would be the same, once. Till the brakes started getting hot, and they would - very fast.

Drive that car, and you will quickly find it will break 100 at just a few seconds, far faster than the standard car would. Get on the brakes for a turn, cut it down to 40, accelerate up to 100 again in a few seconds and repeat. You will quickly find your "stopping distance" increasing rapidly as the standard brakes started to smoke badly :lol:

Say the car has 130 HP rather than 1000 HP - or even just 200. the brakes will have more time to cool down between stops because the car is incapable of accelerating quickly enough for you to be back on the brakes fast enough to seriously overheat them during even highly spirited driving. If this were not the case, you can get good enough stopping distance and plenty of power to lock up all 4 wheels from 4 wheel manual non finned drum brakes. Once.

[Rich]

Does anyone know what the stopping distance is from 60 MPH in a Delorean?


144ft (Motor Trend, Dec. ‘81)

60-0 MPH braking distance for the D. and 4 rivals in the article, ranked here from best to worst:

1. 142ft. – Porsche 928
2. 144ft. – DeLorean
3. 147ft. – Chevrolet Corvette
4. 164ft. – Ferrari Mondial
5. 167ft. – Maserati Merak

[Bitsyncmaster]

144ft (Motor Trend, Dec. ‘81)

60-0 MPH braking distance for the D. and 4 rivals in the article, ranked here from best to worst:

1. 142ft. – Porsche 928
2. 144ft. – DeLorean
3. 147ft. – Chevrolet Corvette
4. 164ft. – Ferrari Mondial
5. 167ft. – Maserati Merak

Now find the weight of those cars.

[content22207]

Same article (low to high, braking distance ratings unchanged):

1. Porsche 928: 2,712 ibs
5. Maserati Merak: 3,200 lbs
3. Chevrolet Corvette: 3,307 lbs
2. DeLorean: 3,351 lbs
4. Ferrari Mondial: 3,500 lbs

(Remember that new from the factory, a DeLorean cost *MORE* than a Porsche)

Bill Robertson
#5939

[David T]

All of these stopping distances are "best case" with cool brakes. Repeated hard stops from speed and you will see a larger spread as the cars with less capable braking systems take longer and longer to stop. Where HP comes into it is on a track where the car will reach higher speeds making the brakes work harder. For what the Delorean is, a very distinctive STREET car, the brakes were adequate for the era. Take just about any street car onto the track and you will quickly find out the brakes are not good enough. Just as you will want to upgrade the powertrain to go faster the braking system (along with many other systems in the car) will need to be improved. To go fast you have to be able to stop fast.
David Teitelbaum

[Bitsyncmaster]

Same article (low to high, braking distance ratings unchanged):

1. Porsche 928: 2,712 ibs
5. Maserati Merak: 3,200 lbs
3. Chevrolet Corvette: 3,307 lbs
2. DeLorean: 3,351 lbs
4. Ferrari Mondial: 3,500 lbs

(Remember that new from the factory, a DeLorean cost *MORE* than a Porsche)

Bill Robertson

#5939

My Delorean says gross vehicle weight is 3180 lbs.

[content22207]

I'm just quoting Road & Track. If you're going to use their stopping distances, you need to use their vehicle weights as well (can't mix one tester's distances with another tester's weights).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[08087]

My Delorean says gross vehicle weight is 3180 lbs.

Add a couple of gallons of gas! :)

All the above are correct, I was just looking for best case stopping numbers for an idea of what to expect if on the highway and someone stops short in front of me. Now I know to leave a few extra car lengths.

I'd love for some car mag. to give a review with best case stopping distance on cars and after 10 hard stops, it would be a good comparison (I think).

Thanks again!

[Bitsyncmaster]

Add a couple of gallons of gas! :)

All the above are correct, I was just looking for best case stopping numbers for an idea of what to expect if on the highway and someone stops short in front of me. Now I know to leave a few extra car lengths.

I'd love for some car mag. to give a review with best case stopping distance on cars and after 10 hard stops, it would be a good comparison (I think).

Thanks again!

A gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR)[1] is the maximum allowable total weight of a road vehicle or trailer when loaded - i.e including the weight of the vehicle itself plus fuel, passengers, cargo, and trailer tongue weight.

[08087]

A gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR)[1] is the maximum allowable total weight of a road vehicle or trailer when loaded - i.e including the weight of the vehicle itself plus fuel, passengers, cargo, and trailer tongue weight.

OOps, then in that case put some more coin in the drivers pocket and go over weight!

Thanks for pointing that out!

[Rich]

Same article (low to high, braking distance ratings unchanged):

1. Porsche 928: 2,712 ibs
5. Maserati Merak: 3,200 lbs
3. Chevrolet Corvette: 3,307 lbs
2. DeLorean: 3,351 lbs
4. Ferrari Mondial: 3,500 lbs

(Remember that new from the factory, a DeLorean cost *MORE* than a Porsche)

Begging pardon, but at the time the Porsche 928 retailed at $40-42K and the DeLorean was well under $30K. The 928 did not weigh 2,712 lb, the DeLorean did. The specification boxes for those two cars were incorrect/swapped in that article. Brake performance, in separate table, presumably was accurate.

[content22207]

I just looked up MSRP of 1981 Porsche 911's (arguably closer competitors to a DeLorean than the 928 ): $27K-$28K. I stand corrected: DeLorean's MSRP was a few thousand dollars less, but quality of the product was overwhelmingly lower, which is why Porsche's continued to sell, despite the economy, blizzard, etc, while DeLoreans languished on the docks.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Jonathan]

...All stopping tests were conducted straight line. Do not attempt to panic stop any other way in a Delorean...

I'm a little concerned about this idea here David. I work in a nuclear plant and we test all kinds of stuff in all kinds of conditions to make damn sure you know how it will react BEFORE you have to do it in anger. You can't consider yourself operating safely unless you KNOW how the plant's systems will behave under an emergency. Best way to find out... test it.

So... while I am not going to just go willy-nilly panic testing my D while doing 60 mph around a sharp corner... what is likely to happen if you have to do this in an emergency? Not saying we need to rush out and test it if unsafe, but if we know there are going to be horrendous results, what do you now consider doing if there is some random immovable object surprisingly in the middle of your lane while you are flying around the corner doing 60 mph?

...I'll also add that no more than about 3 weeks ago I was forced to test my car's panic braking when a large animal ran out in the middle of the highway. I was happy to find out my car stopped rather well, and in a controlled manner. But yes, it happened to be on a straight stretch of road.

[Bitsyncmaster]

My point with the weight is that it directly relates to stopping distance. Of course the tires are another big factor.

[TheDutchTexan]

My heavy stang will go wide if breaking hard (or even turning too hard) in a turn. All the weight transfers to the front, overwhelming the front tires. A DeLorean is heavier in the back, less of that weight will be on the front while braking or turning hard. I would almost assume a DeLorean would loose it in the back. I've never driven a DeLorean, only been a passenger almost 10 years ago in Mart Renders car (a Dutch DeLorean owner).

If (when) I get one I will find an abandoned (read empty) parking lot and see what happens during different circumstances. And I'll have to take her to the local strip to see what she runs in the quarter too. If I feel especially adventurous I'll give her the beans on an abandoned highway in the middle of the night to see what she'll do flat out on GPS. Come to think of that, I've seen top speed videos of the weirdest cars, but never of a DeLorean. Guess everyone that owns one is too sane to try, or to afraid to break something. Heh, guess I will be too after I learn how much it costs to get it fixed. Or the ticket for that matter.

[WelmoedJ]

If (when) I get one I will find an abandoned (read empty) parking lot and see what happens during different circumstances. And I'll have to take her to the local strip to see what she runs in the quarter too. If I feel especially adventurous I'll give her the beans on an abandoned highway in the middle of the night to see what she'll do flat out on GPS. Come to think of that, I've seen top speed videos of the weirdest cars, but never of a DeLorean. Guess everyone that owns one is too sane to try, or to afraid to break something. Heh, guess I will be too after I learn how much it costs to get it fixed. Or the ticket for that matter.

Done that, crashed one, speeded (117 Mph in a 65 zone :) ).
On highways breaking at 70 Mph is strait, no problems.
However in curves even without breaking she tries to wiggle her tail.
If it's raining and the road's puddles fill up, she also wiggles.
Probably the tires, I guess.
On German highways one can go faster without much trouble (120 Mph over a 13 mile stretch is no problem for the car).
I have got her up to the max though, tuning hasn't been completed, so I keep away from pedal to metal until then.

[john 05141]

Welmoed, were you doing this... :angry_whip:
or running from this???:gunfire:


John..

[TheDutchTexan]

WelmoedJ: Crashed one? Oh my... What happened? Libyans?

I don't know if I am happy that you verified that quirky handling. But it is to be expected from a car that has 65% of its weight over the rear axle. Besides, I live in Texas, it's mostly dry out there. It is going to be fun whenever I get my hands on one!

[WelmoedJ]

WelmoedJ: Crashed one? Oh my... What happened? Libyans?

I don't know if I am happy that you verified that quirky handling. But it is to be expected from a car that has 65% of its weight over the rear axle. Besides, I live in Texas, it's mostly dry out there. It is going to be fun whenever I get my hands on one!

Crashing caused by black ice after a left turn on an intersection.
Spinned 180 degrees and killed a street lamp post in the action :)
That was rather expensive (the lamp post: 2800 euro!).

The black D replaced the crashed car.
Somewhere on DMCTalk ought to be pictures of the car after the crash.
BTW: The black D came from Texas (near Austin); collected it myself and drove it to DMCH and then DCS 2008 (Gettysburg).

[WelmoedJ]

Welmoed, were you doing this... :angry_whip:
or running from this???:gunfire:


John..

When and while? :hihi:

[TheDutchTexan]

Yeah, we do have black ice galore here in Texas during the winter. I ended up not going to work with my mustang last winter. Limited traction, and way to many other fools on the road. I am not risking a now around 12k vehicle and my personal safety for a few bucks earned at work. I am making sure I got a couple of days leave lined up for the coming winter in case I need to call out again.

I would not dream of driving a DeLorean in the snow and ice. That would be insane... I don't think the pictures are on here as the events predate your accident, and I couldn't find any posts related to it.

Nice trip getting your DeLorean... Austin to Houston is a nice little trek, and then all the way to Gettysburg? Very cool. That does inspire confidence in the car. If I buy one I would love to make the trip in the car. But that will only be possible if I buy from DMCH. Or someone from the board has checked it and finds it in exceptional condition. Regardless... I will be triple AAA up before getting a DeLo.

Still, we're talking years from now... and I am hijacking another thread... BAD! :slap:

[DniveK]

I would like to reopen this thread instead of creating a new one on aftermarket brakes.
I find my brakes adequate; therefore I want to make them better. I am not satisfied with adequate, especially when it comes to safety. Has anyone had any experience with the brake kits from the UK site or Delorean.Euro? What other bigger brake options have people used?
I would like to stay within the size allowing me to use stock rims, so that eliminates a lot.

[David T]

Before considering "upgrades", make sure the system you have is working properly to it's full potential. The brake fluid shouldn't be over 2 years old, the brakes should be thoroughly bled so the pedal is not spongy. You should have the right pads in and the brakes should not be glazed or worn. The rotors should not be rusty and the pedal should not pulsate during braking. The car should not pull to either side either when braking. The parking brake should stop both rear wheels and fully release with no drag. It wouldn't hurt to make sure each caliper stops each rotor on the possibility BOTH front or BOTH rear calipers are frozen and not stopping their rotors. The first "upgrade" would be to replace the brake pads, brake fluid, and all of the brake hoses. You should scuff up the rotors so the new pads can "bed" in and not glaze up. This will give you new braking materiel just in case the pads you have now are not the right ones or are glazed. Flushing and bleeding will give you new brake fluid with no moisture in it or air. Replacing the hoses will give you a stiffer pedal than the original hoses. A properly working brake system in a stock Delorean is very adequate for street driving. If you intend to track the car, then, you may find it a bit lacking on a course that requires a lot of constant, heavy braking. Before that you will notice the severe lack of acceleration. The brakes are sized for street driving with the stock engine and the gross weight listed.
David Teitelbaum

[DniveK]

I really dont have any problems with my brakes at all, but then again they're just adaquate. I have less than one year old fluid on a new Master, stainless hoses, and rotors with less than 7,000 miles on them rust free. The car stops ok for what it is, but I prefer better when it comes to safety. I like the looks of the UK system, anhyone using this setup or the euro system that can give me some insight?

[Bitsyncmaster]

If your using the brakes a lot then you need the larger disk to keep them cooler. You may get your brakes hot when racing, driving in the moutains or even a lot of city driving. With a 5 speed it's less of a problem since you can down shift to slow down.

The stock setup should work fine for most driving if you don't ride the brakes.

[David T]

There are slotted rotors available but they are noisy. You can get more aggressive brake pads but they will chew up the rotors. The brakes will run a lot hotter and will not work well cold. You might even have to switch to DOT 5 to keep from boiling. Everything is a trade-off.
David Teitelbaum

[DCUK Martin]

With the HiSpec system, I wanted to get the best brakes I could within the original wheels and without creating loads of custom parts. What they provide is the feel of a moden car's brakes without fade. I also see it as essential to uprate the rears at the same time as the fronts, otherwise you have to bias the power of the fronts back down again after fitting them!

Most cars work the front brakes a lot harder than the rears because of weight bias and the transfer of weight under braking. Because of the rear-engined layout and the large back tyres, the rear brakes are capable of safely doing a lot more of the work in the DeLorean. The Porsche 911 has the best brakes of any road car (many say) and this is in no small part thanks to the ability to use the rears a lot more.

Mine is a complete bolt-on system. The only thing you need to supply is brake fluid :thumbup2:

Drop me a pm and I'll put you in touch with owners both here and in the US.

[David T]

I agree a balanced system is very important especially in a rear-engined car like a Porsche or a Delorean. If the rear brakes should lock up earlier than the front brakes the ride will get interesting in a hurry! With the very large Polar Moment and angular momentum of a rear-engined car, once the rear begins to slide out you will NOT recover it. Better to lock up the front wheels first and lose steering! Lotus spent a lot of time perfecting the brakes in the Delorean to keep things tame enough for street driving. If you decide to modify the brake system you should only change things to what has been tested unless you want to become a test driver yourself. What may seem like an innocent change can have BIG effects in a panic or high-speed situation. That is NOT the time to get any more surprises! Unless you track the car or drive in slippery conditions (ice, snow) you only have to worry about a panic stop. 99.99% of the Deloreans are only used in street driving in nice weather now.
David Teitelbaum

[DCUK Martin]

Lotus spent a lot of time perfecting the brakes in the Delorean to keep things tame enough for street driving.

Actually I don't think they did all they could. Lotus do have a habit of making their own cars as good as the can be and not being quite so careful with those they build for other people (see Vauxhall VX220 / Opel Speester for anther example - odd that the Vauxhall is slower round corners than the Elise despite having an identical chassis...).

A very simple example is that people have been fitting the 50/50 master cylinder to the DeLorean for years without issue - the stock is 68/32. It's a shame the 50/50 cylinder has the larger bore otherwise it would feel more like an immediate improvement.