Clutch Question

[Dan81DMC]

Hello. Due to a noisy throw out bearing, I am preparing to replace the clutch soon. This will be the first time I have replaced a clutch in any car, let alone the DeLorean. Considering that I do not have access to a lift, would I be better off dropping the transmission with the car on jack stands, or removing the engine and transmission together and replacing the clutch outside of the car? I should also mention that at the moment I have the rear fascia, muffler, and motor mounts out of the car, so I figure I am already part way towards having the engine out.

[DMCMW Dave]

Without a lift, pull the engine. Leave the trans in the car.

[dn010]

At that point having all that stuff already removed, I agree, pull the engine and leave the transmission where it is. When I did mine, I left the front portion of the transmission bolted to the mounts and used a tow strap to hold the bellhousing up where it should be as if the engine was still there. It is kind of a pain to mate them back up but much easier than doing it on the floor with jackstands and no lift.

Along with the TO bearing, I'd also suggest replacing the pilot bearing too along with the clutch & pressure plate. I even did the rear main seal while everything was open so that is another thing you might look into doing.

[DMCMW Dave]

Along with the TO bearing, I'd also suggest replacing the pilot bearing too along with the clutch & pressure plate. I even did the rear main seal while everything was open so that is another thing you might look into doing.

If you buy a vendor clutch kit, it will come with the two bearings and the rear main seal/gasket.

[David T]

If you go ahead and pull it all it becomes a bigger job because of all of the extra stuff you will have to do to remove the motor. If you do not have a specific reason to remove the motor I would just remove the transaxle. To remove the motor you will still have to do a lot of work underneath, the exhaust, the motor mounts, the wiring, etc. Probably more than "just" R & R ing the transaxle. Also pulling the motor gives you a lot more things to screw up and more parts to lose.

[DMCMW Dave]

If you go ahead and pull it all it becomes a bigger job because of all of the extra stuff you will have to do to remove the motor. If you do not have a specific reason to remove the motor I would just remove the transaxle. To remove the motor you will still have to do a lot of work underneath, the exhaust, the motor mounts, the wiring, etc. Probably more than "just" R & R ing the transaxle. Also pulling the motor gives you a lot more things to screw up and more parts to lose.

As far apart has he stated he has it, and without a lift, I'd still pull the engine. I do agree that the exhaust can be something of a PITA if it's not coming off anyway. You can pull the engine with the exhaust in place up to the cat, but removing the cat and alternator makes it an easier fit.

[Dan81DMC]

Thank you for all the great advice. I do plan on replacing everything in the clutch kit. It is just a failing throw out bearing which is making this job a necessity at this point. Otherwise, the clutch has been working fine, but I wouldn't go through all this trouble and not replace everything.

Dave, I was going to ask if removing the exhaust was necessary. I did have both exhaust manifold gaskets and the cat replaced by Rob Grady a few years back, so it should come apart without too much trouble, but I would prefer to remove as little as possible.

Since this will be my first time pulling the engine, are there any other tips or tricks I should know about?

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[dn010]

It is pretty straight forward: unbolting starter/bellhousing/inspection plate/mounts, unfastening fuel lines, vac lines, electrical connections etc. Drain the coolant from block & water pump hoses or you'll have a hell of a mess. You can leave the slave cylinder & line installed. Lift the engine up enough to clear the mounts and then rearward. I put a jack under the bellhousing once the engine is far enough up to clear the mount - that way the transmission doesn't come crashing down once the components separate.

It is sometimes a pain to separate the engine from transmission, the engine may come right off or it may be frozen. If they don't come right apart and if you can move the engine around enough to make a small gap between the two, I stick a flat head screw driver in the gap and push/pull the engine to pry itself apart. Don't pry on or damage the flywheel/ring gear.

This probably doesn't apply since you said you have already removed your engine mounts but I've had mounts that were rusted solid between the engine mount and frame mount. You'll know if this happens because the whole rear of the car will come off the ground. In this case I just tapped on the mounts gently with a hammer (after I lowered everything back down of course) and they popped free.

[DMCMW Dave]

You'll know if this happens because the whole rear of the car will come off the ground..

......or the mounts will just rip in half.

[Dan81DMC]

Well, after spending two weekends taking things apart, the engine is now out. It came out very easily. I will take this opportunity to clean and and paint the frame in the engine bay. I hope to get it back together soon, but the way these projects usually go, it will probably be torn apart for the next few months. Also, when I went to remove the chassis cross brace, I found it was already loose and the nuts are just spinning in their cages. It looks like the rear shocks/springs will be coming out to get to those nuts. That will be my next project.
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[DMCMW Dave]

I like the ratchet strap solution.

[David T]

At least you have a garage to work in and it has a good floor. Put a bottle jack under the transaxle to hold it up so you can remove the strap. Keep track of all of your hardware. Take a LOT of pictures to jog your memory, especially if you are not going to put it all back together soon.

[Dan81DMC]

Tonight I removed the 6 screws which hold the pressure plate to the flywheel. However, the pressure plate is still stuck in place. I am assuming it is frozen to either the flywheel or the dowel pins. I sprayed the dowel pins with PB Blaster and gave the pressure plate a few hits with a mallet, but no luck. Is there any trick to breaking this thing loose when it is stuck like this?

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[DMCMW Dave]

. Is there any trick to breaking this thing loose when it is stuck like this?



Pry bar. A big one.

[Dan81DMC]

Never mind, I posted too soon. I was afraid to pry against the flywheel earlier, but I just went back out and very gently used a large screw driver to pry between the pressure plate and flywheel. It popped right off. I now feel better about going through all this trouble. I initially thought I just had a noisy throw out bearing. Now I see that the clutch disc has almost no friction surface left! The car has about 28,000 miles on the odometer, but the angle drive was broken when I bought it, so who knows how accurate that is.

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[Dan81DMC]

Pry bar. A big one.

Thank you for the quick response, Dave!

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[DMCMW Dave]

Worst case would be that you'll pull the dowel pins out of the flywheel, which you need to do anyway to resurface it.

[Dan81DMC]

Worst case would be that you'll pull the dowel pins out of the flywheel, which you need to do anyway to resurface it.

The dowel pins did stay in the flywheel. What is the prefered method to remove the pins? I plan on taking it to a local machine shop to have it resurfaced. I know it is important to keep the step on the flywheel, but are there any specific measurements I should give them?

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[DMCMW Dave]

The dowel pins did stay in the flywheel. What is the prefered method to remove the pins? I plan on taking it to a local machine shop to have it resurfaced. I know it is important to keep the step on the flywheel, but are there any specific measurements I should give them?



Turn the flywheel over and knock them out with a punch.

13 thou

Try to find an auto machine shop that deals with flywheels if you can.

[David T]

Turn the flywheel over and knock them out with a punch.

13 thou

Try to find an auto machine shop that deals with flywheels if you can.

You only need to grind the flywheel if it has heat cracks, blue spots, or ridges. Any good automotive machine shop will have a Blanchard grinder and they can take care of the pins.

[Dan81DMC]

The questions continue...

I have searched through the shop manual and online, but I have not seen a tourque spec for the screws which hold the rear plate on the engine where the rear main seal is mounted. All of the screws seemed too loose to me when I removed them. I replaced the seal this past weekend, but have been afraid to tighten the screws down too much. I don't want it to leak, but just as much don't want to risk breaking off a bolt over tightening it.

Also, what is the best way to seal the bottom of the plate where it contacts the lower crankcase? I feel good about the seal at the back of the plate (gasket + right stuff), but not so much about the bottom. I am considering pulling the plate back off and redoing it.

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[dn010]

I used the torque as stated in my Volvo book: 9ft/lbs. I also use "Indian Head" to seal all surfaces including where the plate contacts the lower crankcase. It was years of use - still not even a drip of oil to this day :o

[Dan81DMC]

I used the torque as stated in my Volvo book: 9ft/lbs. I also use "Indian Head" to seal all surfaces including where the plate contacts the lower crankcase. It was years of use - still not even a drip of oil to this day :o
Thanks! I could not find that spec anywhere. Maybe my screws were not too loose after all. Does that spec also apply to the two hex head screws which come up from underneath?

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[bdmiko]

Turn the flywheel over and knock them out with a punch.

13 thou

Try to find an auto machine shop that deals with flywheels if you can.

I am taking my flywheel in for resurfacing due to some minor grooves and some minor rust from sitting too long. However when I measure the step size I am getting closer to 22 thousands for the step. Would a smaller step of 13 thousandths make a big difference?

Thanks
David

[DMCMW Dave]

If the step is too big the clutch will drag when disengaged. If too small it will slip. If the disc is worn (are you using a new clutch) then slightly thicker is probably ok.


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[bdmiko]

If the step is too big the clutch will drag when disengaged. If too small it will slip. If the disc is worn (are you using a new clutch) then slightly thicker is probably ok.


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The clutch is being replaced. Is there typically a large variance in the step size? This is an original flywheel and it has never been resurfaced.

[David T]

The clutch is being replaced. Is there typically a large variance in the step size? This is an original flywheel and it has never been resurfaced.

If you have minor surface rust and minor scratches I would not bother resurfacing the flywheel. If they get the step wrong the clutch won't work right. Get an orbital sander and just clean it up. Even if they get the step right, if they take too much off you mess up the geometry with the clutch fork and there is no adjustment. The only adjustment is "automatic" in the clutch hydraulics and it won't be able to compensate for a large change in the flywheel surface. You should have a flywheel ground only if you see a lot of heat cracks and blue spots.

[bdmiko]

If you have minor surface rust and minor scratches I would not bother resurfacing the flywheel. If they get the step wrong the clutch won't work right. Get an orbital sander and just clean it up. Even if they get the step right, if they take too much off you mess up the geometry with the clutch fork and there is no adjustment. The only adjustment is "automatic" in the clutch hydraulics and it won't be able to compensate for a large change in the flywheel surface. You should have a flywheel ground only if you see a lot of heat cracks and blue spots.

When I used the term "minor" I may have been understating the issue. Here is a picture of the flywheel. You can see the grooves and the rust marks where the original clutch sat for many years.
30950

[Nicholas R]

When I used the term "minor" I may have been understating the issue. Here is a picture of the flywheel. You can see the grooves and the rust marks where the original clutch sat for many years.
30950

Definitely have that resurfaced. Here's what a flywheel ready to be installed should look like.

[David T]

Definitely have that resurfaced. Here's what a flywheel ready to be installed should look like.

Yeah, they look pretty when new. If the grooves are not deep you don't have to cut. The friction plate will wear and fit right into the grooves. I didn't see any heat cracks or blue spots. Just the grooves from where the rivets in a worn pressure plate scored the flywheel. Your choice. There is sometimes a spec you can measure to and if the grooves are small enough you can let it go. If you take it to a machine shop they will just cut it for you, that's how they make money. All too often shops cut parts just so they can charge for it and after 1 or 2 cuts they make money selling you a new one. Take brake drums and rotors as an example. In one shop I knew of they cut every rotor on every car as "good Practice" if it needed it or not. You can always talk the customer into it when you say it's necessary for the safety of the car. In any case if you do decide to have the flywheel cut it should be done on a Blanchard centerless grinder. You will know because it leaves that pattern of overlapping circular marks. Once the face is ground they must cut the step back to it's original height. You should measure that before you go and check it when you get it back.