Southern CA Air Conditioning Help?

[sapphirexae]

Probably a silly question but is there anyone in So Cal (preferable San Diego area) that could assist me in installing new AC lines? I'll pay/treat to lunch, whatever. I would love to avoid the high AC costs at DMC if at all possible. I had a relative say they'd assist and then promptly backed-out. It's getting hot down here!

Thanks!!

[David T]

Doing the A/C lines is not all that difficult. You could replace them yourself and any good A/C shop should be able to finish the job. You do not have to go to a DMC shop for the A/C. I am sure in SOCAL you should have plenty of A/C shops. Just be VERY careful not to twist the hard line connections on the evap or condenser coils. Replace the dryer/accumulator and all 3 hoses. If there is any gas in it go to a shop and have them remove it for you first. The split set (2 piece for the 2 long hoses) is the way to go.

[DMCMW Dave]

The split set (2 piece for the 2 long hoses) is the way to go.

An A/C shop, or DMC Cal, will terminate the hoses in place after running them so there is no need for 2-piece hose.

[David T]

An A/C shop, or DMC Cal, will terminate the hoses in place after running them so there is no need for 2-piece hose.

It sounded to me like the OP wanted to do as much of the R & R as he could to keep the costs down. Using the split hose kit is the easiest way. A side benefit is if the ends are not "clocked" correctly you can adjust them with the 2 piece kit.

[scotstern]

I live in the DeeToe (Escondido) and I faced the same issues that you are describing a couple of years ago. I took the car to Ronnie's Air Conditioning which has been around for a hundred years and looks it. He seems to know his stuff and in two days the job was complete. He converted the car and with all parts and labor it came out to just a tad under $1,000. Best investment ever as now it is cold and everything works very well. Overall, I am glad that I did the conversion.

DMC wanted well over $2,500 to do the same thing plus the problem of making two trips up there to get it done. These guys do air conditioning and that is all they do so they seem to know what they are doing. Once I saw what they did, a lift and three hours and I would have had the lines run myself. By the time I priced all of the parts it was actually better to let them do it.

Scot
6452

[Timebender]

I'm planning on taking mine out to Kirk's in El Cajon - they do both AC and Radiator work, and have been around as long as I can remember. I need to have mine checked, probably refilled or swapped, and I need to check my vacuum lines into the console- fan comes on but the control knob does nothing to direct the air out the vents.

[David T]

Before going you should try to at least get the vents working. If the mode switch is hard to turn and/or hissing just rebuild it with a kit. That may be all you need for that. If the refrigerant has leaked out you should get a new set of hoses and a dryer/accumulator before going to the shop. Ask if they will fill the system with R-12. If possible you should try to stay with -12.

[Timebender]

The mode switch actually turns pretty easily. At first I could feel warm air coming from the door vents, but not the front vents when I had it on warm. If I turned up the fan though, there wasn't much if any difference although you could hear it going faster. I'd like to at least get fresh air in the cabin, aside from having the windows down, when driving. And I'll order some hoses and accumulator. Where's the best place to get those?

Greg

[kings1527]

The mode switch actually turns pretty easily. At first I could feel warm air coming from the door vents, but not the front vents when I had it on warm. If I turned up the fan though, there wasn't much if any difference although you could hear it going faster. I'd like to at least get fresh air in the cabin, aside from having the windows down, when driving. And I'll order some hoses and accumulator. Where's the best place to get those?

Greg

Sounds like you might have an issue with the pliable plastic connectors just behind the vents. Those are always a bit tricky to get installed correctly onto the vents. Sometimes people simply jam the vents back in place and that causes the plastic connector to squish down and decrease airflow delivered. That'd be a simple place to start. I've tried putting the connectors in the freezer to get them real stiff just before installation and that helps a bit.

Aside from that, try shifting the mode switch into several other modes to confirm airflow where it should be (i.e. windshield, floor vents) and isolate it to the center vents. Overall, sounds like a pretty easy fix.

[Timebender]

Thanks! I'll take a whack at it this weekend if not sooner when I get a chance.

[Delorean Industries]

I spend time in San Diego at my place relaxing in Cardiff. If we are installing our line kit I can do it on site depending on working conditions. I normally drive over from Phoenix and can bring required tools etc. Especially with a second set of hands it is rather quick baring evap core/condenser are in one piece. I bill hourly outside of the shop compared to flat rate at our locations. Multiple owners at once isn't a problem either. Carla works from home and wants me out of the house during the day and expects me home at night. I stare at the ocean for about five minutes and I'm bored out of my mind.

As a rule of thumb I always flush evap and condenser, hang all lines with accumulator and a compressor. Anything short of that isn't a good idea.

[kings1527]

I spend time in San Diego at my place relaxing in Cardiff. If we are installing our line kit I can do it on site depending on working conditions. I normally drive over from Phoenix and can bring required tools etc. Especially with a second set of hands it is rather quick baring evap core/condenser are in one piece. I bill hourly outside of the shop compared to flat rate at our locations. Multiple owners at once isn't a problem either. Carla works from home and wants me out of the house during the day and expects me home at night. I stare at the ocean for about five minutes and I'm bored out of my mind.

As a rule of thumb I always flush evap and condenser, hang all lines with accumulator and a compressor. Anything short of that isn't a good idea.

Just curious, Josh, what do you use to flush? Typical commercial AC flush or mineral spirits?

[Delorean Industries]

Just curious, Josh, what do you use to flush? Typical commercial AC flush or mineral spirits?

I make a custom formulated mixture including Methyl isobutyl ketone, pre clean 9001, ac pro flush (50% added by volume to dissolve contaminated oil deposits) ,Ethyl Benzene (to inhibit flash build up of oxidation in the evap/condenser core from ketone) and Sodium Bichromate.

Using a refillable pressurized aerosol can I back flush the component with the opposite end plugged to fill the core after it begins to run clear on the discharge side. I then take the appropriate AN sized plastic cap and plug the discharge side. With a heat gun and cone attachment I apply heat into the larger side fitting (upper on condenser/accumulator side evap) My chem mixture above has a flash point of 217F. When it flashes the plastic cap on the opposite end pops. This purges any residue within the system left by the chemicals and prevents residual contamination of refrigerant and oil. EVAC system and pressurize after install and you are good to go. Costs approx. $35 in chemicals per car to perform this properly.

[Timebender]

I just went out to the garage, fired it up and tested the AC/heat pretty thoroughly. Here's what I found...

No air comes out the front vents at all, in any setting, and that's with playing with opening and closing the vents.
On MAX, lots of air comes out the side vent with the driver door open - not so much seems to come out the passenger side with the door closed (didn't try with the door open). Cold air comes out nice - but does need to recharge, and lots of good warm air too.
On the defrost, nothing seems to come out the side or window vents - though on Norm I can feel some air coming out the front window vents..
On Heat setting, nothing comes out anywhere - not the side, below, or front.
On Mix, a little air out the sides.

If I went back to MAX from any other setting, it wouldn't get any air out the sides - but if I shut it off, then turned back on, on 4, I got lots of air again.

At least I know I can get heat when I want it if it gets cold out, and some cool. The hoses in the back look like they're in good condition coming off the GM compressor.

Any thoughts- or how difficult is it to rebuild the control knob?

[sdg3205]

I just went out to the garage, fired it up and tested the AC/heat pretty thoroughly. Here's what I found...

No air comes out the front vents at all, in any setting, and that's with playing with opening and closing the vents.
On MAX, lots of air comes out the side vent with the driver door open - not so much seems to come out the passenger side with the door closed (didn't try with the door open). Cold air comes out nice - but does need to recharge, and lots of good warm air too.
On the defrost, nothing seems to come out the side or window vents - though on Norm I can feel some air coming out the front window vents..
On Heat setting, nothing comes out anywhere - not the side, below, or front.
On Mix, a little air out the sides.

If I went back to MAX from any other setting, it wouldn't get any air out the sides - but if I shut it off, then turned back on, on 4, I got lots of air again.

At least I know I can get heat when I want it if it gets cold out, and some cool. The hoses in the back look like they're in good condition coming off the GM compressor.

Any thoughts- or how difficult is it to rebuild the control knob?

There are a few variables here.

If no air EVER comes out of the centre/front/face vents, gently pop them out and make sure the two rubber boots haven't been crushed behind them in a fit of furry.

MAX should be delivering air to the centre vents as well. The difference between MAX and MIN is simply that MAX engages recirculation.

Defrost only fires out the dash

Heat only fires out at the feet

Given how odd your HVAC is working I'd guess:

1. Your mode switch diaphragm has deteriorated and isn't distributing vacuum properly
2. Your vacuum hoses are cracked, hanging the breeze, disconnected, connected incorrectly etc
3. You need to re-foam your actuator doors
4. some vacuum actuators or doors are jammed.

You can reach under the dash on the drivers side and disconnect one of the vacuum lines and see of it gets vacuum.

Also, double check you're actually getting vacuum TO the mode switch from the engine. Its not uncommon to break or crush vacuum lines under the centre console by mistake.

[Timebender]

There are a few variables here.

If no air EVER comes out of the centre/front/face vents, gently pop them out and make sure the two rubber boots haven't been crushed behind them in a fit of furry.

MAX should be delivering air to the centre vents as well. The difference between MAX and MIN is simply that MAX engages recirculation.

Defrost only fires out the dash

Heat only fires out at the feet

Given how odd your HVAC is working I'd guess:

1. Your mode switch diaphragm has deteriorated and isn't distributing vacuum properly
2. Your vacuum hoses are cracked, hanging the breeze, disconnected, connected incorrectly etc
3. You need to re-foam your actuator doors
4. some vacuum actuators or doors are jammed.

You can reach under the dash on the drivers side and disconnect one of the vacuum lines and see of it gets vacuum.

Also, double check you're actually getting vacuum TO the mode switch from the engine. Its not uncommon to break or crush vacuum lines under the centre console by mistake.

Thanks for the info, Dave.

1. How do I pop those out?
2. I do get a little air out of the top of there dash, but nothing significant (fan on 4), and even seems to when it's in other modes.
3. Nothing's coming out down below - at all.

I'm going to get the mode switch rebuild - and I'm guessing it's pretty easy to take it out to do so?

Vacuum hoses- I'll check those. I would guess they're somewhat working as when I turn the dial, things do happen, kind of.

And most likely on the doors and actuators. I'm guessing (again) that can all be fixed by removing the center dash or just the face (as I was thinking about replacing all the bulbs with LEDs anyway).

And I'll check a vacuum hose this weekend.

Greg

[sdg3205]

Hey Greg. You can remove and inspect the mode switch before buying any parts. You'll have to remove the centre console anyway so it's prime inspection time.

Try shining a flashlight into the centre vents and see if you can see some yellowish foam. The vents are held in by tabs. Pinch them gently and ease them out if need be.

Unfortunately if you want to re foam the doors you have to remove the whole hvac box

[Timebender]

Once we get all the Christmas decorations up today and some other small project stuff, I'll dive in and see what's going on. I'll check the vents though today as well as the vacuum line on the drivers side at the minimum so I can rule those out.

[Timebender]

I figured how to take the vents out - not too bad overall. I could see the vacuum hose that t's off, and the yellow foam. So I checked the canister down below as the engine was running, and as I moved the hose where it goes into the elbow, you could hear air being sucked in. So I got some electrical tape for now, wrapped it there, and tried the mode selector.
In norm, the doors opened up all the way. Yay! Then in bi-level, they shut (?) but I couldn't feel any air coming out down below. So I went to vent, and the doors stayed shut. In heat, you could hear a lot more air being directed somewhere, including out the top of the dash, and in defrost, lots of air coming out the top of the dash.

When I turned the knob back to vent, the doors opened up, and stayed open in norm, and the back rear door suddenly opened. Back in Max, the rear door shut. Back to norm, and it stayed shut. Then when I went to bilevel, it opened and the vent doors stayed open.

Tried this a few more times, back and forth, with not the same results. At least i get air out the from vents now, and defrost is going full force. And the air out the side vents is on in max, norm, and also in defrost.

And the rubber boots were a bit bent, so now I'm freezing them while on the vents so they can get some shape to them and will put back in in a little bit.

[Timebender]

Bump:
So is the stuff I'm experiencing kind of DeLorean normal, or should I rebuild my mode switch?

[kings1527]

Bump:
So is the stuff I'm experiencing kind of DeLorean normal, or should I rebuild my mode switch?

It definitely doesn't sound normal. My first guess would be improper connecting of the vacuum lines to the mode switch. Usually a bad mode switch in need of a rebuild emits a constant hiss of vacuum from it as you use the selector. It doesn't sound like that's what you have going on.

I'd look to remove the AC plate (remove center console first, very easy) and that'll give you access to removing the mode switch so you can see the color striped vacuum lines and ensure that they're connected to the right ports on the mode switch. Take pictures along the way before you start removing lines so you have a baseline of where you started. Once you get the center console out and the AC plate off, it'll give you great access to all the lines so even if it's not related to wrong ports on the mode switch, you can at least travel each line in the immediate vicinity to see if there's an obvious problem (i.e. severed or disconnected vacuum line away from the mode switch).

In the workshop manual, N:08:15 goes over vacuum line routing and their respective functions. Starting at N:1:3, it goes over where you should be getting air at each function on the climate control knob/mode switch.

Let us know what you find out.

[sdg3205]

Do you have a vacuum gauge? I'd test to ensure you have the correct vacuum at the mode switch. I don't have the vacuum specs in Hg available but a vendor will.

[Timebender]

It definitely doesn't sound normal. My first guess would be improper connecting of the vacuum lines to the mode switch. Usually a bad mode switch in need of a rebuild emits a constant hiss of vacuum from it as you use the selector. It doesn't sound like that's what you have going on.

I'd look to remove the AC plate (remove center console first, very easy) and that'll give you access to removing the mode switch so you can see the color striped vacuum lines and ensure that they're connected to the right ports on the mode switch. Take pictures along the way before you start removing lines so you have a baseline of where you started. Once you get the center console out and the AC plate off, it'll give you great access to all the lines so even if it's not related to wrong ports on the mode switch, you can at least travel each line in the immediate vicinity to see if there's an obvious problem (i.e. severed or disconnected vacuum line away from the mode switch).

In the workshop manual, N:08:15 goes over vacuum line routing and their respective functions. Starting at N:1:3, it goes over where you should be getting air at each function on the climate control knob/mode switch.

Let us know what you find out.
Sounds easy enough. Thanks for the advice. :)

[Timebender]

Do you have a vacuum gauge? I'd test to ensure you have the correct vacuum at the mode switch. I don't have the vacuum specs in Hg available but a vendor will.
I do not. It made a huge difference though when I taped up the hose near the lower vacuum canister that you can see T'd off above the radio and running behind the vents as well to the right somewhere.

I was going to pull the hose off the canister but it wouldn't budge (maybe i should try when the car is off!). And I would guess some of the other lines have a small leak as well. But that in itself helped a lot - now I can get air through the front and top vents (and HEAT through them on cold mornings!!).