Oh crap :( Water pump leaking, temp and amp gauges dead

So I decided to take it on a short road trip to make sure everything was hunky-dory before driving to Vegas next week. Well, 10 miles outside of Wendover I stopped at a rest stop and when I went to get back in the car I found it leaking antifreeze by the water pump. The temp had been just under the 220 line the whole way and by then I'd sat for 45 minutes so I continued into town but as I was getting off the freeway I realized that the temp gauge hadn't really moved possibly in over an hour and my amp gauge was dead. Now I'm worried that I actually drove 100 miles with it overheating. I checked the oil filler and the plastic wasn't melted and the oil on the dipstick looked OK but is there anything else I should check? I felt the radiator intake and outflow hoses and they were warm so I'm hoping that means everything was flowing correctly but from what I've read here it sounds like I have a failed seal in the water pump.

How screwed am I? If worst comes to worst I can either get it towed back to SLC or leave it here and take the bus back but what are the chances a random mechanic can fix this?

Check the two hoses at the top of the water pump, maybe the clamps just worked loose... I was running mine one day and saw antifreeze running on the ground..got worried and called Toby at DMCNW and he told me to check them...sure enough, the clamps were a little loose.

Buy a pressure tester and see where you are leaking. Were the hoses firm at operating temperature?

If there is still coolant in the system, the rad was hot and it didn't boil over you're probably fine. I have seen brand new water pumps leak.

Dave, funny you should mention new pumps leaking because this one was replaced by the seller. I contacted him to see what brand it was and if it had a warranty.

I didn't see anything obviously wrong with the hoses but I'll take another look in the morning. There was fluid up by the thermostat and throttle, below them (I'll post a picture tomorrow).

One other thing I forgot to mention, when I got to the hotel, it wasn't leaking any more. But maybe it was just my imagination but it felt hot inside the cabin. (Perhaps worth noting that I didn't have the a\c on, but had run it briefly a few times earlier that day).

I've got a pressure tester. How will I tell where it's leaking, will it make a noise or bubble or something? I used it when I was trying to troubleshoot the overheating in WY but I don't think it was actually leaking then.

You'll know if you have a leak because pressure will drop and coolant will probably visibly spill out somewhere. Likely from the elbow hoses at the water pump as already mentioned.

Pump to 15 psi, have your flathead or sockets ready and tighten the hose clamps where the leaks are present.

Up on top sounds like the hoses to me, thats where I saw it when I started watching it after seeing it on the ground.

Pressure tester is prolly something I should get, unless its the same thing thats used for the fuel pressure.

It's not uncommon to see leaks on recently installed water pumps. The hoses / clamps are still going through the break in process and settling in. In addition to the pressure testing, The correct thing to do is tighten all the clamps with a torque wrench. Worm clamps are typically 50-60 inch lbs. A bad water pump is determined by the weep hole in the shaft housing. If that is dry then you just have an external leak to deal with. Running at 220 is okay so long as the needle does not keep going above that. You did not mention the outside air temp and elevation but given that you weren't running the A/C. (Assuming it works) tells me it was not that hot out.

You many have a flaky ground connection at the the LH gauge set. That Volt gauge and temp gauge share the same ground trace on the PCB. As long as the Batt light comes ON with the key ON and goes OFF when you start the engine, your alternator is charging. What direction was the volt gauge needle pointing and what happens to the temp needle when you turn the key ON without starting?


Dennis

I would say you didn't overheat since waterpumps tend to leak but still work as long as they have coolant to move.

I have a question, did you (or someone else) recently add coolant? are you sure it wasn't overflow? The overflow hose is somewhat close to the water pump area.

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Originally Posted by Michael

I would say you didn't overheat since waterpumps tend to leak but still work as long as they have coolant to move.

I have a question, did you (or someone else) recently add coolant? are you sure it wasn't overflow? The overflow hose is somewhat close to the water pump area.

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Excellent observation by Michael. IIRC, DaraSue just had the thermostat swapped recently at her local repair shop and they probably topped off the overflow tank afterward.

While the engine is cold, take a quick look in the overflow tank, to check the level. Usually, somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 full will be the correct level in the overflow tank.

I just hooked up the pressure tester and pumped it into the 13-14 range (it was getting hard to press the plunger by then and I was afraid to push it further) but I found leaks in the passenger and driver side large hoses. The ones above the pump on the passenger side and the one going down to the radiator line on the driver's side. I tightened the clamps and it stopped dripping so I'll consider that a positive sign.

I ended up leaving the thermostat that was in it because it had the jiggle pin after all, but I did just have it flushed and one of the hoses on (I think) the return line from the radiator replaced (passenger side, under the car near the front, but I didn't see any leaks from there or the radiator).

I haven't started it up yet but the temp gauge is still showing a hair under 220 and the amp gauge is pointing down below the low end of the scale.

If your volt gauge is working a little then you may have 2 separate problems...in other words your volt gauge may be working and telling you the truth. Check your battery voltage.

As far as the temp gauge, does it (or the volt gauge) move at all? The temp gauge should read 0 on a cold engine with the ignition key on.

Obvious question - are your V-belts still on?

As far as I can tell the belts are all where they're supposed to be. I did just turn it on accessories and the gauges seem to be somewhat back to normal. The temp gauge went back to the bottom and the amp gauge moved up a little. But the battery light looked like it was flashing. Is that normal or was it not charging last night due to a wet belt slipping or something?

If your alternator/pump belt is slipping the battery light will illuminate but that usually happens under a load (ie. Acceleration) unless it's really loose. Tension needs to be checked and verified.

Flashing batt light is normal with the new DMCH CS130 alternator.


Dennis

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Originally Posted by DMC5180

Flashing batt light is normal with the new DMCH CS130 alternator.


Dennis

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You can stop the flashing by connecting the sense terminal to the output (battery) terminal. It also stops the voltage dropout every 18 seconds. So I'm guessing that flashing is an error code.

Well, I started it up and drove a mile up the road. At first the gauges were still frozen but then it started acting normal again (a little over 13 volts and around 160 deg). I almost got back on the freeway but thought I better get it looked at just in case. Good thing b\c by the time I got to the shop the volt meter was dead again. He tested the battery and it was good and charging. We ran it up and it looks like it's leaking from around the thermostat housing. He's blowing it off now to try and find exactly where the leak is.

Not sure on the volt meter..electrical issues can be fun to track down, could even be just a loose connector.

Hope its just the seal on the leaking.

They found a couple of hoses that were still loose and fixed those - one was a bypass hose that I think was inside the thermostat housing so I probably couldn't have fixed it myself. It's not leaking anymore but the gauges were still not right. They said the battery was low even though the alternator was charging so they're going to charge it some more and replace the belts. Fortunately I still had the set I brought with me from Chicago :)

I checked the fuses and they looked good so it wasn't that.

My thermostat housing has sprung a leak before too. Tightening the 2 bolts did nothing. Very odd. Usually the seals corrode nicely into a bulletproof water barrier. I used a new seal and RTV to ensure it stayed leak free.

If your gauge is intermittent check all your connections from the sensors, bulkhead, and binnacle harness. Clean them very well. Even the printed circuit board GENTLY.

The volt gauge problem is likely Bad connection on the back of the instrument cluster. The binnacle(pod) has to come out in order to clean and tighten connections. Both LH gauges share a common ground. If it was a feed issue it would likely only effect one gauge.


Dennis

Were the belts bad? why did they replace them?

If you loose the LH gauges also check the LH signal indicator and headlight high beam indicator. They all share the same ground trace. If those are also not working it points you to a Ground Issue.


Dennis

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Originally Posted by Lwanmtr

Were the belts bad? why did they replace them?

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They thought they'd gotten damaged by all the antifreeze dripping on them (this time and during my misadventures in Wyoming). I figured it wouldn't hurt to swap them with the DMC ones anyway, since I wasn't sure what kind the seller had put in and I've heard some horror stories about aftermarket ones.

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Originally Posted by DMC5180

If you loose the LH gauges also check the LH signal indicator and headlight high beam indicator. They all share the same ground trace. If those are also not working it points you to a Ground Issue.

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Hmm, I'll have to look into that. I didn't have occasion to use the high beams since this started happening and I can't remember if I used the left turn signal but it's hard to see the indicators from where I sit in relation to the steering wheel so if I used it and it didn't come on, I might not have noticed.

The ending to this story: I thought it was good to go after doing all that work, but then when I stopped at the rest stop halfway home, it was spraying antifreeze everywhere. It wasn't just dripping, there was a stream of it coming from the right side of the thermostat housing and more coming from the other side by the hose and some leaking from the seam around the middle of it. At that point I had AAA tow it back to SLC. At least I still haven't used my 200-mile tow yet...

It still had at least 1/3 of the overflow bottle left so I don't think I lost a ton of coolant but it was definitely worse than last time. The weird thing is, I didn't see a trail of it where I'd pulled into the rest stop, so it was almost like it only started leaking when I stopped.

Trying to keep a positive attitude and tell myself that at least it didn't happen in the middle of nowhere on the way to Vegas...

What did the thermostat gasket installed on the road a couple of weeks ago look like? It should be a c-shaped ring that grabs the outside edge of the thermostat. If it's a simple o-ring it would probably leak. Not sure what's in a NAPA thermostat box.

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Originally Posted by DMCMW Dave

What did the thermostat gasket installed on the road a couple of weeks ago look like? It should be a c-shaped ring that grabs the outside edge of the thermostat. If it's a simple o-ring it would probably leak. Not sure what's in a NAPA thermostat box.

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Not sure. I'll have them save it when they change it out so that others can learn from my mistakes... :banghead:

Sounding like your car has developed over active bladder....hehe. But seriously, glad you've been able to catch it before you ended up overheating and damaging the engine.

All part of the shakedown period...looking forward to mine (sorta)...hehe.

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Originally Posted by Lwanmtr

Sounding like your car has developed over active bladder....hehe. But seriously, glad you've been able to catch it before you ended up overheating and damaging the engine.

All part of the shakedown period...looking forward to mine (sorta)...hehe.

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Yeah, Mike said it was possible that it had only leaked on shutdown because that's when you have high temps + no airflow or coolant flow. In retrospect I'd been thinking it felt hot around the back after I'd get home from work (about 12 miles) for a while, but since I never saw any visible leaks I didn't pay enough attention to it and thought maybe I was imagining things. Live and learn...

Well the car will be a lil warm in the back, cause thats where the engine is 8) (had to...hehe)

Coulda been a developing issue until it finally just gave out, which is why you didnt see it at first.

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Originally Posted by Lwanmtr

Well the car will be a lil warm in the back, cause thats where the engine is 8) (had to...hehe)

Coulda been a developing issue until it finally just gave out, which is why you didnt see it at first.

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Nobody likes a smartass, son. :tongue_stick:

But yeah, kicking myself 5ever for not getting the thermostat swapped when I'd originally planned to. Arrgh.

They haven't started on it yet at the shop but when I went over yesterday to drop off the thermostat (which I'd spaced and forgotten to bring on my trip, which probably could have solved half my problems) I checked the turn signal and brights and neither turn signal worked, but the bright indicator came on. Something else that may be related, after I got it off the flatbed, my fuel gauge was reading close to empty and the gas light was on. Can't remember what the oil pressure was doing but that one had previously been working AFAIK. I thought maybe the float had gotten stuck since it was at a pretty steep angle going on and off the truck and I didn't smell gas or anything to indicate that it had leaked. Anybody have any ideas?

The fuel is forward in the tank. A steep nose up angle can make it come on.

Just to be clear, both signal indicators did not work? Was the key ON? Did you hear the signal relay clicking?


Dennis

Turn the four-way flasher on and off. If that sticks slightly it will kill the turn signals.

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Originally Posted by DMC5180

The fuel is forward in the tank. A steep nose up angle can make it come on.

Just to be clear, both signal indicators did not work? Was the key ON? Did you hear the signal relay clicking?

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Neither one worked. It was on to the first notch (accessories) but I hadn't started the engine. The headlights worked. I didn't hear the relay clicking.

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Originally Posted by DMCMW Dave

Turn the four-way flasher on and off. If that sticks slightly it will kill the turn signals.

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I called them yesterday and told them to check that. They're still in the process of taking the thermostat housing apart. The suspense is killing me...

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Originally Posted by DaraSue

Neither one worked. It was on to the first notch (accessories) but I hadn't started the engine. The headlights worked. I didn't hear the relay clicking.

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The Key must be in the Run (ON) position for turn signals to Work. The Hazard switch, however, has a LIVE feed and can be turned ON anytime. When checking these functions, also be sure to verify the external lights too.

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Originally Posted by DMC5180

The Key must be in the Run (ON) position for turn signals to Work. The Hazard switch, however, has a LIVE feed and can be turned ON anytime. When checking these functions, also be sure to verify the external lights too.

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I called the shop to let them know, but they said it's that way in all cars. I'd never really had occasion to think about it before, heh.

The good news is there wasn't permanent damage to the thermostat housing, and the mechanic concurred with Dave's theory that the o-ring just wasn't up to snuff. The bad news is, while they were messing with it they found the lines going out toward the front of the car were corroded and on the way to collapse, so now I have to wait for those. Plus the minor oil leak from the valve cover gasket was getting on the exhaust so I'm having that fixed too, before I end up with another Extra-Crispy D.


Trying to think of this as a blessing in disguise since at least it didn't happen on my way to Vegas...

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Originally Posted by DaraSue

I called the shop to let them know...the minor oil leak from the valve cover gasket was getting on the exhaust so I'm having that fixed too....

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A "while in there" note:
Would like to suggest that since the engine needs the valve clearances checked/adjusted every 30K miles you consider having the shop do that when the valve cover is off. Do the non-leaking side, too. Gasket, valve adjustment and all.

If there are records showing that the last valve clearance check wasn't too many miles ago then forget I mentioned this.

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Originally Posted by Rich

A "while in there" note:
Would like to suggest that since the engine needs the valve clearances checked/adjusted every 30K miles you consider having the shop do that when the valve cover is off. Do the non-leaking side, too. Gasket, valve adjustment and all.

If there are records showing that the last valve clearance check wasn't too many miles ago then forget I mentioned this.

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Yeah, the original owner pretty much never did anything to it. I called the shop and had them put that on the list. It's coming up on 23k so it probably would have been another year or so anyway. Thanks!

In that case, good idea they're going through it all.

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Originally Posted by Lwanmtr

In that case, good idea they're going through it all.

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Yeah, I think I might have driven it more miles in the last month than it's been driven in the last 20 years. It's got an oil change sticker from 1987!

Woohoo! Thats more of a service history than i have, prior to me getting her, anyway....lol