Can anyone tell me which jack is correct for VIN 1669, the one with an eye for a folding crank handle or the one that use a lug wrench?
And either way, which lug wrench, one has a slightly deeper well?
THX in advance!
Can anyone tell me which jack is correct for VIN 1669, the one with an eye for a folding crank handle or the one that use a lug wrench?
And either way, which lug wrench, one has a slightly deeper well?
THX in advance!
When I said Deloreans were not sold with the tool kits I meant when the cars were delivered to the dealers they did not have them. I can't say if they were never installed or if they were they were removed at the QAC centers. There was a BIG bin of them at the warehouse where I bought mine. I can't say if that bin was all of the tool kits removed at the QAC centers or just stock. I did not hear of them being given away but I do know they did sell for a very low price at the warehouse. They were not a big seller because they are essentially useless as a tool kit. They sell better tools in Toys Are Us.
David Teitelbaum
I cleaned, prepped, and showed Ken Koncelik's concourse car at DCS '08 for him because he was too busy to do so. I can tell you that his car did indeed have a pristine toolkit with all the components inside, I opened it up and laid it out in the trunk next to the unrolled jack kit and it was judged. I even recall the judges pulling the wrenches out to inspect that they were the correct "spanner" style wrenches with the right markings. All points were awarded for both the tool kit and jack kit.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeloreanJoshQ
I do not know however where he got the toolkit. His is the only one I've ever seen. Before then I never even knew they existed. His car is an 83 so from the sounds of it, his car should never made it to the customer's hands with the toolkit. Not sure if it makes a difference or not but the car was purchased by Ken from Charlie DeLorean at his Cadillac dealership in the 90's. Perhaps a combination of it being Charlie DeLorean's and him owning the dealership where the car was sold and owned influenced whether or not the car had a toolkit.
No tool kit. VIN 7075.
2075 has no too kit...only a jack kit & 2 screwdrivers that appear to have been added by a PO. BTW, my jack looks to have been used at least once by the scrapes in the bottom of the frame. Apparently this is not like current scissor jacks as the 1 leg of the base just drags along the ground :shocked:
Attachment 7827
Info on 6513's toolkit has already been supplied.
However now that some pictures turn up, I can see how it should have been.
My jack has both the long handle and the lug nut tool.
The jack looks like it barely survided WWII, no more paint visible.
I've made a bag for it so it's a bit more protected and eventual rattle is deadend.
Josh I really do not appreciate you bringing my name up in this debate that you have seemingly endless time to engage in on multiple platforms. I work 14 hours a day, and not in a cubicle or office where I can also engage in endless debate with you from work as well, nor do I have time to answer all of your questions nor find them in every venue that you have posted them in. I just do not have that kind of free time, nor do I want to spend the limited free time I have debating with you or searching every platform that you've engaged this debate on to provide answer.
The concept you really seem to fail to grasp and what sparked this debate, is my (and others) complaint that the Tool Kit is required under Millennium Concours rules written by James Espey. The rules are not Vin specific it is required of all Vins without exception. Though it is common knowledge that very few (if any) *apparently some did as Dave Swingle has inspected far more DeLoreans then I've ever had access to and I would not debate his remarkable knowledge of these cars* had the kit to begin with. I could be mistaken on the costs DMCH sold the item as as it is $0.00 on their site now if it's even listed. I do not know the cost descrepency between what the Kits sold for at Kapac in comparison to DMCH, if they where listed for sale by Kapac at all. There where many items that Kapac had that DMCH found by surprise. I never had knowledge of the kits when I owned my 1st DeLorean from 92-96, they where not listed in catalogs that I had at the time. These became hot items to Concour competitors after their inclusion into the above mention DeLorean Millennium Concours rule book and they had to be in the cars or the owner would be subject to points deductions.
If they where sold at even $75 that could be at a considerable premium. The kits left a lot to be desired in quality. My contention the requirement that these be present in Concours cars was a sales scheme devised by DMCH and executed by James Espey by authoring the Concours Manual to require them to move these low demand kits at a premium.
Josh my friend what you have done is fail to see the forest from the trees by nitpicking the details like exact costs, quanitys and interpretations on point deductions, and ignoring the broader issue of a small specific example of the folks at DMCH abusing their power and trust by manipulating the DeLorean World coming up with schemes to squeeze out a little more profit from Concours competitors on a no to low demand item like this deleted tool kits, by literally writing the book on them.
Here is a link to an eBay auction I wrote a commentary about on Facebook that spawned this waste of time debate in the first place.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELOREAN-FAC...item43ac71eaab
Also the concept of DMCH sitting on inventory that it will not sell is not out of left field. There are plenty of items in DMCH's inventory that is not publicly listed for sale at any price, either set or not. For the most part they will only publicly sell what is listed on the website. That does not 100% encompass or reflect their complete inventory.
Tim,
Originally, I thought this was a friendly debate, but I was mistaken....
I put the poll up here because you stated as fact that no Deloreans arrived to customers with tool kits(hence they should not count at concourse), so I wanted to find out from actual owners, not rumors or "reliable sources", what better place than DMCTalk? I also posed two different viewpoints to each argument to find the correct answer to each one, which I received.
You are inaccurate on your facts, this is why I called you on them.
-You were unable to provide proof of the cost of toolkits but claimed they were $150 and at a "premium". I checked and found the actual answer from more than one DMC business owner was "$71.21 in 1993 @KAPAK, and last price was $74.77 at DMCH" , which I will accept as fact. You have since retracted your original statement.
-You said 5.75 point deduction on the concourse car without a toolkit and are incorrect. I checked and also asked a concourse judge and the correct answer is 3.25.
You did your math incorrectly and/or you jumped to conclusions, "almost 6 points!".
-You said there were thousands of toolkits left over and stockpiled. I asked a DMC owner and the answer was actually less than 100 when KAPAK sold the inventory to DMCH. You need to cross-check your "reliable source" better. You have since backed up and generalized your statement.
The point I am making is that you exaggerate your claims and are attacking Delorean people and businesses who support our community which I see as unfair and unacceptable.
You are hypocritical though because you still buy parts from DMC (that you accuse of price-gouging) and have stated surprise that they haven't "blacklisted" you.
You also are hypocritical because you falsely advertise and sight your claims just as you have accused DMC doing of their Deloreans.
- a few recent examples include "New vs. Remanufactured Deloreans", "Crash Testing/Safety of New Fiberglass Underbodies" and now "Premium Price Tool Kits"
We all love Deloreans and sharing our experiences and knowledge with others and for the most part it is positive and constructive. However, when you behave negatively with the intent to persuade others in your crusade it is reflected back to you.
I may be speaking only for myself, but I have grown tired of you continually and routinely bashing DMC/James Espey and your negative attitude. You accused me of "trolling" on facebook, threatened to de-friend me, and questioned whether I worked for DMC, so I left you alone to say whatever you want there going forward.
The next time you attempt to assasinate someone's character, job, or a company that supports our hobby do your homework first and be truthful so you don't lose credit and trust from others like me. It would also help to seek resolution with those you have disagreements with if you want to continue to do business with them instead of complaining continuously which hasn't resolved any differences.
Josh Q
The whole concept of allowing a Vendor to promote the Concours results in a basic conflict of interest. Most car Marques have clubs and organizations that run and promote the concours to avoid this. That being said, better to have DMCH do it than no one. Requiring a tool kit (even if it was not originally delivered with the car) is not all that bad considering how other cars are judged and other concours are run by other car clubs. There are many examples of things being judged that may or may not have been original to the car. Like accessories such as the luggage rack, ski rack, or floor mats. If this is going to morph into a concours discussion the heading of the thread should be changed. My argument is that there should be a bonus category for things that were available but not standard like seat covers, tool kits, side stripes, racks, etc. It is done that way in some other car clubs where you can theoretically earn more than 100 points but it is not done that way by all car clubs. Just the fact that DMCH is promoting the concours is a way for them to sell ALL KINDS of parts so an entrant can improve the car to gain the most points possible. For example if you have a door seal with a very minor tear and you want a "perfect" car you have to buy a new door seal even if you really wouldn't otherwise. IMHO DMCH is playing the "Benevolent Dictator" which is OK but they may not have good intentions forever. Unless local clubs get together to actually RUN the concours you really can't blame DMCH for wanting to do it. It promotes the Marque and sets standards and that sets values. Deloreans offered for sale are always judged against the value of a "perfect" car and then adjusted according to condition of each particular car offered for sale. Not having a tool kit (or any other part originally offered) reduces the value of the car against the "perfect" car. Like it or not that is the way the Classic Car market operates.
David Teitelbaum