Delorean Motor Company (DMC) Texas threatening to sue Delorean owners now

So the new cars are still coming?

>>>So the new cars are still coming?

Sounded like he said not any time soon, but maybe I misread.

Well, that was an interesting read. Kudos to James for writing. (He didn’t have to) And I don’t suppose it will settle anything.

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Originally Posted by gullwingD

>>>So the new cars are still coming?

Sounded like he said not any time soon, but maybe I misread.

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If you haven't figured it out from my user name, I have ZERO faith in Houston's abilities to make a competent product; let alone a car.

This was just posted! It's just weird!

https://youtu.be/EnAQclTEc10


It's from DMCH

Dave B.

Low volume vehicle law is pretty clear that any car produced under that act must look like the original vehicle. DMC still clinging on to that non DeLorean car may hint that they are completely abandoning the act that has pretty much stalled. Perhaps they are going to purchase all or part of some obscure low production car company that has already jumped through all the government hoops and has a car already completed.

If there is some sort of collaboration, all they need to do is slap a "DMC" badge on it and call it a day.

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Originally Posted by DMCH James

SonnyV thing was a mistake I made

SW bought out the inventory of DeLorean parts from Kapac in 1996, not 1998. In the early days DMC owning the Kapac inventory, the goal was to get more service centers, not more mail-order parts sellers. What the DeLorean community needed was DeLorean-specialized service, not more ads in the back of DeLorean World

As far as our ending of our relationship with Toby, in general terms, we discovered he was grossly violating the terms of agreement he signed when he came on with DMC. He was unable or unwilling to remedy those violations in a manner that would allow him to continue as a DMC dealer.

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A few observations - I was still buying wholesale from Kapac in 1997, and attended their open house 10/31/97. If they sold out to SW a year earlier that's news to me, but it would explain some of what was observed there. 'Nuf said. My earlier comment was not about "more mail-order parts sellers", it was about supporting existing ones that had been very successfully filling an apparent void, with lower costs, for many years. My inventory, probably second only to theirs in size, was viewed as competition - especially since my prices were lower due to my low acquisition costs. (Note that DMCH's low acquisition costs did not result in similar lower prices...). That inventory in Toby's hands plus the proprietary and very successful door opener and door lock actuator kits I pioneered, now sold as DPNW's "Wings Aloft" products, are no doubt what caused his "violation". DMCH probably couldn't handle the competition so kicked him to the curb. All in all I have no regrets about moving on, but it was directly caused by SW and DMCH.

McDonalds may not sell french fries to Burger King, but they can both sell them without one forcing the other out of business. Especially when they didn't invent the potato.

>>McDonalds may not sell french fries to Burger King, but they can both sell them without one forcing the other out of business. Especially when they didn't invent the potato.[/QUOTE]
well said

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Originally Posted by Michael

Low volume vehicle law is pretty clear that any car produced under that act must look like the original vehicle. DMC still clinging on to that non DeLorean car may hint that they are completely abandoning the act that has pretty much stalled. Perhaps they are going to purchase all or part of some obscure low production car company that has already jumped through all the government hoops and has a car already completed.

If there is some sort of collaboration, all they need to do is slap a "DMC" badge on it and call it a day.

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^THIS!! Or some failed italdesign project that will be salvaged by slapping a DMC logo on it.

I want parts not leggings sold to me by an interracial couple

What we were promised:

Attachment 68105

What we got:
Attachment 68107

DMCH: "The future was never promised"

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Originally Posted by Michael

What we got:
Attachment 68107

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"Great! I always wanted a DeLorean branded Sex Doll!" - Fanatics

Complete with camel toe!

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Originally Posted by Michael

What we were promised:

Attachment 68105

What we got:
Attachment 68107

DMCH: "The future was never promised"

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Gull wings to camel toe Delorean has you covered

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Originally Posted by DMCH James

Lots of things going on in this thread across a wide swath of history. The ones who were there when it happened got it mostly right, lots of the others got it varying degrees of wrong. I’m sure the same will be said about what I am about to write. George Carlin, I think, said “where you stand on an issue depends on where you sit” - that seems to fit here, too.

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From where you sit, you not only have direct access to the "real story"- but are part of it. I appreciate your honesty in this message, but... (there is always a but with me!! LOL!) more on that later.

One thing I don't understand from the community is the failure to recognize that DMCH is a for profit business. Buy low, sell high is the basic idea behind making a profit. No one should be finding fault with it, as long as it is done in a legal and moral way. More to say on that, but it is not really relevant to this conversation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DMCH James

On that subject, weÂ’re hiring in just about all areas for in-person positions here at DMCH. Come work here and see for yourself what it takes to keep this going! Company paid medical, dental, vision, HSA/HSA, paid holidays/vacation, 401k and more!

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I happen to be between gigs right now... :)

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Originally Posted by DMCH James

And actually, we did get rights to certain IP from Kapac, which they acquired from Consolidated when they got it from the DMCL Receiver. The stylized DMC logo, of course, was not part of that and was acquired through an application approved by the USPTO. Over the years we have added to the IP portfolio to protect the brand from uses that could have been inconsistent with the direction in which Stephen (as owner) wanted the business to go.

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Here is where the "but" comes in. Based on this, it seems to confirm what I have been saying for 20 years. The stylized logo (which existed in DMC documentation from the late 1970's) was registered by DMCH. Something that DMCH did not create, or buy- something that was literally pulled off of 20 year old documents (at the time), was simply claimed by filing a form with the USPTO. That claim was then used to block the previously public domain use of any DeLorean related "artwork" (Stylized, block, whatever...) with bully tactics. I am restating this for clarity, because it is the specific focus of my argument. Again, it sounds to me that you are confirming my position on the matter. I too am not a lawyer, but believe that if a judge saw the evidence in the matter, they would have invalidated the claim. With the time that has passed, that may not be true anymore. Either way, I believe this is an immoral way to make a profit. Even if you agree with me, you are not in a position to say so publicly. :)

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Originally Posted by DMCH James

I consider Marc a long time friend, too. Marc, lmk if you still need Purflux filters, I recently found some in an old box while looking for radio manuals for you in my storage unit from when I moved.

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I have a few Purflux filters left, so I am OK for now- but could always use more as backup. I don't drive 1860 much anymore. Been thinking about selling it.

WRT Rob, Toby, Etc- I was not part of any of that, but will say I heard different sides/versions of those stories. Interesting to hear yours too. Personally, I think more vendors selling and servicing our cars is better for everyone and am disappointed when action is taken to "reduce competition". IMO, it is shortsighted and not good business.

Glad we could get you roped back in to the time suck vortex of the internet. Hope to see you IRL soon.

This is exactly the issue I have -- it is morally wrong! The newcomers don't get it. John DeLorean is rolling in his grave. There will NEVER be a new DeLorean, you can put the name on it -- but it is not a DeLorean! As much as John wanted to create a new car, he would not want a 3rd party profiting off his his hard work, leaving no money for his family. His family was taken advantage of after his death.

>>>Here is where the "but" comes in. Based on this, it seems to confirm what I have been saying for 20 years. The stylized logo (which existed in DMC documentation from the late 1970's) was registered by DMCH. Something that DMCH did not create, or buy- something that was literally pulled off of 20 year old documents (at the time), was simply claimed by filing a form with the USPTO. That claim was then used to block the previously public domain use of any DeLorean related "artwork" (Stylized, block, whatever...) with bully tactics. I am restating this for clarity, because it is the specific focus of my argument. Again, it sounds to me that you are confirming my position on the matter. I too am not a lawyer, but believe that if a judge saw the evidence in the matter, they would have invalidated the claim. With the time that has passed, that may not be true anymore. Either way, I believe this is an immoral way to make a profit. Even if you agree with me, you are not in a position to say so publicly.

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Originally Posted by DMCH James

Events of the past two years - pandemic, and the legwork resulting in the coming news about the changes to our website - have put the club program on the back burner, but it was far more than just a waiver - lots of nice “value-added” benefits to being a member of an organized local/regional DeLorean club - and I hope once the dust settles in the coming months we are able to re-visit and implement that. I, for one, am anxious to get back out to club events around the US.

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LOL... the past TWO years?! Fake DMC hasn't cared about the DeLorean community for FAR longer than that... and they think they'll be welcomed by DeLorean owners by offering 10% off of their already overpriced parts? lol Hopefully they hire an image consultant to train them on how to be part of a community, and how to actually care about their CUSTOMERS.


DeLorean OWNERS should make use the various crossover parts lists out there (like this one - www.DeLoreanDirectory.com/crossover-parts) so they can get the same/better parts, sometimes with REAL warranties, instead of buying Fake DMC's parts, and getting over-charged on shipping.


Also, support these companies, who ARE part of our communities - www.DeLoreanDirectory.com/service

Fake DMC's new tagline... "We never PROMISED to build the 'new' DeLorean in the future." lol

Reading all of the posts this thread reminds me of why I opted to become an online recluse by cutting off contact with most people and the community itself.

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Originally Posted by BLWNAWY

I addressed that issue somewhat in the "John Hervey Passed Away" thread at #17:

"Quote Originally Posted by DMCVegas View Post
Then there was the confusion between "Special-T-Auto" and Darryl Tinnerstet's "Specialty Automotive" in Washington that added to much confusion for buyers, and consternation for Darryl (probably even a factor as to why he retired from the business).

Not really. John and I only spoke once, about his choice of business name and the ensuing "confusion". We had different business practices and goals, and co-existed. The main factor in my decision to retire was DMCH who, after buying out KAPAC, refused to honor their policy of selling wholesale to other smaller vendors. I had a large inventory of my own, but not everything my customers would need. And you can't buy at retail and resell at retail. Upon purchasing my business Toby resolved that issue by becoming a branch of DMCH, something I was unable (due to location) and unwilling to do. That worked for a while, but as with many such unions a "dissolution" was inevitable.

RIP John.

Darryl T
Retired, restoring cars, building street rods
Still lurking here daily"

As noted we just co-existed. There was never any thought of legal action as I don't operate that way. We "traveled in different spheres" I guess - didn't overlap that much. But he did cause me some grief when his customers, having issues with his service or parts, would call me to complain due to the name similarity. I straightened them out...

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I like you, Darryl. You once saved me a ton of work and sold me a solitary antenna mast so that I didn't have to buy an entirely new antenna assembly.

But I do remember you came across as a whole lot more upset by Hervey's actions and his flippant attitude towards you.

http://www.projectvixen.com/dmcnews-.../msg38724.html

I'm still amazed to this day that John didn't go out of business sooner with his terrible organizational skills, or rather lack thereof.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Michael

Low volume vehicle law is pretty clear that any car produced under that act must look like the original vehicle. DMC still clinging on to that non DeLorean car may hint that they are completely abandoning the act that has pretty much stalled. Perhaps they are going to purchase all or part of some obscure low production car company that has already jumped through all the government hoops and has a car already completed.

If there is some sort of collaboration, all they need to do is slap a "DMC" badge on it and call it a day.

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Looks like (on the surface) I was about 80% right. The rumor is they are going in with a 3 wheeled electric "car", so with 3 wheels, the vehicle doesn't have to conform to nearly any of the safety protocols that a normal automobile does.

If that's true, then the new DeLorean will be nothing more than a rebadged "econobox" electric trike with all the status and prominence of those rental electric cars you see married couples from Arkansas riding around in at the beach.

Motor journalist bloggers and Jalopnik millennials will fawn over it and you may even see it on the morning shows in NYC, but that will be nothing more than a flash in the pan. It will have the lifespan of a Mayfly and be dead in the water by 2023.

If however it rises above the run of the mill 3 wheelers out there, the name alone may help propel it to cult status. I spent a few weekends with a Slingshot when they first came out. I was impressed for a few days, but the shine didn't last and the appeal faded fast. That said, a lot of people bought them and a lot of people enjoy them...as a recreational toy, not really a GT car.

In the end we may like it or hate it, not really important either way. It's their risk to take and their direction to go. They have to make money too and if this venture works, then good for them....and about time because finally...after 11+ years of teasing, at least they got something to show for it, even if it's 3/4 of a car.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gullwingD

This is exactly the issue I have -- it is morally wrong! The newcomers don't get it. John DeLorean is rolling in his grave. There will NEVER be a new DeLorean, you can put the name on it -- but it is not a DeLorean! As much as John wanted to create a new car, he would not want a 3rd party profiting off his his hard work, leaving no money for his family. His family was taken advantage of after his death.

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John Zachary De Lorean is dead. He has no say in anything. Be it building new cars, or even for idiot owners out there who continue to listen to sub-par scratchy radio in their cars because they're trying to "preserve" their cars because it's how JZD built the car. Let alone the fact that he wished Houston better luck with his own brand than he had. But it doesn't matter because he isn't here.

Ignoring the entire argument about the pedigrees of cars which was essentially destroyed by badge engineering and fully eliminated by captive imports, it doesn't matter anymore. Hell, even General Motors doesn't exist any more if you want to get technical about it. They went bankrupt, and a new company with a similar name took their former resources. Legally, they aren't the same. But no, you never hear anyone else complaining that their Silverado or Corvette isn't a "real" Chevrolet.

You honestly want to know what I think? I think that if you could somehow ask JZD, be it across the void of the Great Beyond, or if you could meet him in the past, he'd probably be perfectly fine with what is going on. Sure, the only exception he'd have would most likely be that he wouldn't be around to see some personal income since he'd be long dead by this time. But he'd love every minute of it. Why you ask?

No one remembers the big CEOs like Ed Cole, and even people like Lee Iacocca are a fast fading memory. Most people don't even know how many Ford family members there are, let alone can tell them apart. Only hardcore Corvette guys know who Zora Arkus-Duntov is, and other designers like Larry Shinoda who pioneered not just muscle cars from the 60's but the echoes from his design studio can still be seen in the Jeep brand today are all but anonymous now. But John Z. De Lorean won. He's the one that everyone will remember. His name, his image, his legend will continue on. Just like Obwaandi'eyaag.

Now I'm sure you've no idea who Obwaandi'eyaag is. So I'll save you a search. He was an indigenous war chief from the Detroit area who fought against settlers and was considered by some a hero, and a villain by others. You probably know him better by his more common name, Pontiac.

156 years after his death, his name, and occasionally (interpreted) likeness was emblazoned upon automobiles that had not even been invented in his lifetime. Eventually his name, thanks to a young engineer named John Z. De Lorean who would ultimately head the company division, would command great respect on the road and among the people. And just like what De Lorean did for Pontiac, the same shall be done for De Lorean. JZD has become the new Pontiac. What the automotive world did for Pontiac, it will now in an interesting twist of fate, do the same for De Lorean.

So yes, he'd be happy because he won. His name has become not simply famous, but it is now legend beyond what any of his peers could achieve.

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Originally Posted by dmcnc

^THIS!! Or some failed italdesign project that will be salvaged by slapping a DMC logo on it.

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I was sent this by anther eagle-eyed D owner and I wonder if this is the plan:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/m...c-grand-tourer

I don't see how it would be possible unless Ital have a manufacturing partner, though. Individually they would cost moon-money. I'm not crazy about all of this (can't wait to add "is that one of the old ones" to the list of stupid questions), but if the above is the case then it's probably as close to the spirit of the original car as you can get.

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Originally Posted by matt clark

I was sent this by anther eagle-eyed D owner and I wonder if this is the plan:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/m...c-grand-tourer

I don't see how it would be possible unless Ital have a manufacturing partner, though. Individually they would cost moon-money. I'm not crazy about all of this (can't wait to add "is that one of the old ones" to the list of stupid questions), but if the above is the case then it's probably as close to the spirit of the original car as you can get.

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To draw a unconventional parallel, I used to sell a lot of guns before the market got stupid crazy. I had much better success selling to the $600.00 and less crowd than to the $700 and up crowd. Reason being the people with deeper pockets knew what they were doing.

Now consider the proposed 6 figure price point of most GT electrics. Which would you rather have, an obscure electric with a "DMC" badge pasted on for dewy eyed romantics or at the same price, a brand new 2022 Lexus LC500 that comes with top tier performance and build quality, global warranty support, and the company is older than my T shirt?

If they go for the 6 figure crowd, they damn well better have a stellar product.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by matt clark

I was sent this by anther eagle-eyed D owner and I wonder if this is the plan:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/m...c-grand-tourer

I don't see how it would be possible unless Ital have a manufacturing partner, though. Individually they would cost moon-money. I'm not crazy about all of this (can't wait to add "is that one of the old ones" to the list of stupid questions), but if the above is the case then it's probably as close to the spirit of the original car as you can get.

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You beat me to it!
I was doing some detective work myself and it was my conclusion as well. There's a lot of similar things going on.
We just have to wait I guess.

Dave B.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by matt clark

I was sent this by anther eagle-eyed D owner and I wonder if this is the plan:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/m...c-grand-tourer

I don't see how it would be possible unless Ital have a manufacturing partner, though. Individually they would cost moon-money. I'm not crazy about all of this (can't wait to add "is that one of the old ones" to the list of stupid questions), but if the above is the case then it's probably as close to the spirit of the original car as you can get.

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DeLorean or not... that ItalDesign Concept is sexy as fuck!

Attachment 68110

My primary issue with all Electric Vehicles is Battery Degradation. Battery cells naturally degrade due to constantly being drained and charged non-stop and you WILL be forced to replace your batteries every 5-8 years if you want to continue to use your EV to its fullest potential. The money that you originally save in Fuel is simply being reallocated to the cost of battery replacement which commonly runs into the 5 figure range. As of right now, it's a gimmick. Until battery degradation is almost solved, I will never purchase nor give any thought to purchasing an electric vehicle.

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Originally Posted by DMCVegas

Reading all of the posts this thread reminds me of why I opted to become an online recluse by cutting off contact with most people and the community itself.

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👆🏻 THIS. Right here.

I was super-involved with the community and my local club (DMA) for years before even buying my car. Complete drama, too many strong personalities, and just overall BS that took the joy away from ownership caused me to step away too. That was in the club, the DML, and at events. Just awful.

Every single time I dip a toe back into things, I'm reminded real quick how stupid things get.

It's a car. DMC is a business. People gotta freaking chill out. The amount of in-fighting for such a small community is mind-bloggling. I swear we couldn't get consensus on anything if we tried. Like DMCH, don't like DMCH, want to sell your own stuff, don't want to sell your stuff, involved or not, it is so much drama. And for what? Go enjoy your car. You know, the ACTUAL thing that's supposed to bring some joy to our lives as owners.

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Originally Posted by MacStainless

���� THIS. Right here.

I was super-involved with the community and my local club (DMA) for years before even buying my car. Complete drama, too many strong personalities, and just overall BS that took the joy away from ownership caused me to step away too. That was in the club, the DML, and at events. Just awful.

Every single time I dip a toe back into things, I'm reminded real quick how stupid things get.

It's a car. DMC is a business. People gotta freaking chill out. The amount of in-fighting for such a small community is mind-bloggling. I swear we couldn't get consensus on anything if we tried. Like DMCH, don't like DMCH, want to sell your own stuff, don't want to sell your stuff, involved or not, it is so much drama. And for what? Go enjoy your car. You know, the ACTUAL thing that's supposed to bring some joy to our lives as owners.

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You guys are really missed too. Why is it that whenever people like to discuss and have conversations, even debates, someone always cries foul and runs away? It's not drama. It's not fighting and nobody needs to "chill out". Stop trying to be the lone voice of reason and maturity while at the same time elevating yourself to "I'm better than all of this" status with your self serving lectures. This is a discussion forum aptly named DMCTalk and the sub forum "DeLorean discussion"...WTF did you think we would be doing here?
Strong opinions aside, I like opiniated people even if we don't see things the same. I like conversing with those people and some the ones whom I have had "strong discussions" with in the past, (I guess that would be what you call drama and fighting) I have since became good friends with. They have even stayed at my home and we hung out together at DMC events(while you two sour pusses stayed home with the blinds drawn wallowing in your self righteousness).

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Originally Posted by Michael

You guys are really missed too. Why is it that whenever people like to discuss and have conversations, even debates, someone always cries foul and runs away? It's not drama. It's not fighting and nobody needs to "chill out". Stop trying to be the lone voice of reason and maturity while at the same time elevating yourself to "I'm better than all of this" status with your self serving lectures. This is a discussion forum aptly named DMCTalk and the sub forum "DeLorean discussion"...WTF did you think we would be doing here?
Strong opinions aside, I like opiniated people even if we don't see things the same. I like conversing with those people and some the ones whom I have had differing opinions in the past, I have since became good friends with. They have even stayed at my home and we hung out together at DMC events(while you two sour pusses stayed home with the blinds drawn wallowing in your self righteousness).

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You make good points, Mike. There's a few assumptions, which is fine, so I just want to clarify my position. Whether anyone agrees or doesn't agree with it is fine. I know everyone is coming from different angles.

I'm not saying there's no room for debates or lengthy discussion (we're on page 11 of this thread!) but I do think there is a lot of unnecessary stirring of the pot and circular discussions that don't make any progress. I personally simply don't want to be a part of that aspect of the community.

I am definitely not trying to be a 'lone voice' or anything. Just stating my position (which I KNOW people will disagree with) that we don't need to get so wrapped up in things that are supposed to bring us happiness.

Removing myself from the community was a decision I made for MY mental health. I've wanted a Delorean since I was a kid and busted my butt to get one. To then see there was an ancilary aspect to ownership that was negative was... frustrating. I foolishly thought for a while that I could try to set a good example. Instead, I got caught up in it all and realized it was taking away from ownership instead of adding to it. Of all the "friends" I made over the years through ownership, only ONE would ever try to keep in contact with me. Everyone else was kinda ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and, again, that is fine. So I'm not being a "sour puss at home with the blinds drawn". I'm making sure I prioritize my own state of mind by selectively including myself in thing and equally removing myself too. This community can freaking consume you if you let it (Marc even said so in his response to James).

I think there's a LOT of animosity toward DMCH (misplaced or not) which doesn't help anything. James' reply a few pages ago was IMO good and well-written. He flat-out apologized for the SunnyV thing and seems to be genuine in his statements. Like all of us, he's not perfect. I sure as hell aren't perfect either. I simply want one thing: to enjoy my car.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MacStainless

You make good points, Mike. There's a few assumptions, which is fine, so I just want to clarify my position. Whether anyone agrees or doesn't agree with it is fine. I know everyone is coming from different angles.

I'm not saying there's no room for debates or lengthy discussion (we're on page 11 of this thread!) but I do think there is a lot of unnecessary stirring of the pot and circular discussions that don't make any progress. I personally simply don't want to be a part of that aspect of the community.

I am definitely not trying to be a 'lone voice' or anything. Just stating my position (which I KNOW people will disagree with) that we don't need to get so wrapped up in things that are supposed to bring us happiness.

Removing myself from the community was a decision I made for MY mental health. I've wanted a Delorean since I was a kid and busted my butt to get one. To then see there was an ancilary aspect to ownership that was negative was... frustrating. I foolishly thought for a while that I could try to set a good example. Instead, I got caught up in it all and realized it was taking away from ownership instead of adding to it. Of all the "friends" I made over the years through ownership, only ONE would ever try to keep in contact with me. Everyone else was kinda ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and, again, that is fine. So I'm not being a "sour puss at home with the blinds drawn". I'm making sure I prioritize my own state of mind by selectively including myself in thing and equally removing myself too. This community can freaking consume you if you let it (Marc even said so in his response to James).

I think there's a LOT of animosity toward DMCH (misplaced or not) which doesn't help anything. James' reply a few pages ago was IMO good and well-written. He flat-out apologized for the SunnyV thing and seems to be genuine in his statements. Like all of us, he's not perfect. I sure as hell aren't perfect either. I simply want one thing: to enjoy my car.

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Hey no worries man. I get it. Too much of anything is bad and it don't take very much of being in this community to need to unplug for a bit..or longer. Your opinion is just as valid as mine.

I too am fine with James' apology and I promise I will not bring it up anymore. Winter seems to keep most of us in front of a screen more and with the last few years to boot, it stands to reason we are all a little more on edge.

Sorry I may have "overacted"... it's the sign of a opiniated drama queen.

The Ford family is still involved with the business and still gets paid. Would love to hear how Kathryn and Zach feel about how DMCH acquired the stylized logo, and how they're selling new merch with the family name, without getting a dime, or not getting royalties from the Back to Future franchise for so many years. I think we need another movie, or documentary. A LOT of unanswered questions and confusion - and the general public should know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DMCVegas

John Zachary De Lorean is dead. He has no say in anything. Be it building new cars, or even for idiot owners out there who continue to listen to sub-par scratchy radio in their cars because they're trying to "preserve" their cars because it's how JZD built the car. Let alone the fact that he wished Houston better luck with his own brand than he had. But it doesn't matter because he isn't here.

Ignoring the entire argument about the pedigrees of cars which was essentially destroyed by badge engineering and fully eliminated by captive imports, it doesn't matter anymore. Hell, even General Motors doesn't exist any more if you want to get technical about it. They went bankrupt, and a new company with a similar name took their former resources. Legally, they aren't the same. But no, you never hear anyone else complaining that their Silverado or Corvette isn't a "real" Chevrolet.

You honestly want to know what I think? I think that if you could somehow ask JZD, be it across the void of the Great Beyond, or if you could meet him in the past, he'd probably be perfectly fine with what is going on. Sure, the only exception he'd have would most likely be that he wouldn't be around to see some personal income since he'd be long dead by this time. But he'd love every minute of it. Why you ask?

No one remembers the big CEOs like Ed Cole, and even people like Lee Iacocca are a fast fading memory. Most people don't even know how many Ford family members there are, let alone can tell them apart. Only hardcore Corvette guys know who Zora Arkus-Duntov is, and other designers like Larry Shinoda who pioneered not just muscle cars from the 60's but the echoes from his design studio can still be seen in the Jeep brand today are all but anonymous now. But John Z. De Lorean won. He's the one that everyone will remember. His name, his image, his legend will continue on. Just like Obwaandi'eyaag.

Now I'm sure you've no idea who Obwaandi'eyaag is. So I'll save you a search. He was an indigenous war chief from the Detroit area who fought against settlers and was considered by some a hero, and a villain by others. You probably know him better by his more common name, Pontiac.

156 years after his death, his name, and occasionally (interpreted) likeness was emblazoned upon automobiles that had not even been invented in his lifetime. Eventually his name, thanks to a young engineer named John Z. De Lorean who would ultimately head the company division, would command great respect on the road and among the people. And just like what De Lorean did for Pontiac, the same shall be done for De Lorean. JZD has become the new Pontiac. What the automotive world did for Pontiac, it will now in an interesting twist of fate, do the same for De Lorean.

So yes, he'd be happy because he won. His name has become not simply famous, but it is now legend beyond what any of his peers could achieve.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by gullwingD

His family was taken advantage of after his death.

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Umm no. While it is pretty well documented the drug charges were bs, the fraud/embezzlement charges were not. He and his family benefited by his shady dealings. There were other un-named people that lost in those dealings. What about their familyÂ’s? What about the familys of factory workers that lost their jobs? IÂ’m not going to say some bad choices means his whole life is bad, but he is responsible for his choices. If he couldnÂ’t leave anything to his family, itÂ’s his fault. His family got to live the celebrity lifestyle for awhile. ItÂ’s not anybody elseÂ’s fault they couldnÂ’t continue.

But most important, people are not “owed” anything by their parents. (Except an upbringing) It’s nice if they get something, but it’s the luck of the draw. To suggest otherwise is the “entitlement culture” that is the bane of our society today.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MacStainless

Removing myself from the community was a decision I made for MY mental health. I've wanted a Delorean since I was a kid and busted my butt to get one. To then see there was an ancilary aspect to ownership that was negative was... frustrating. I foolishly thought for a while that I could try to set a good example. Instead, I got caught up in it all and realized it was taking away from ownership instead of adding to it. Of all the "friends" I made over the years through ownership, only ONE would ever try to keep in contact with me. Everyone else was kinda ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and, again, that is fine. So I'm not being a "sour puss at home with the blinds drawn". I'm making sure I prioritize my own state of mind by selectively including myself in thing and equally removing myself too. This community can freaking consume you if you let it (Marc even said so in his response to James).

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OUCH This may be a matter of perspective, but I reached out to you MANY times after you seemed to have disappeared. You removed me from FaceBook, and G+ (when it still existed). You ignored my emails, and texts. How many times can I be ignored before I take the hint- you don't want to associate anymore? Should I beg?! I actually ask this question of myself A LOT, even more so recently as it seems the old norms of socializing are gone forever. I'll stop there, because this is not a therapy session. Point is, unless I am the "ONE" you are talking about (and, I don't think I am)- you are way off base with this. I am sure many other people in the DMA feel the same. You just vanished, and ghosted us. I assume with good reason? But, that is none of my business. Please consider your perception is inaccurate.

Totally understand that you would prioritize your own mental health, etc.. But "removing yourself" never has to be all or nothing. Discussions about specific topics (mostly being online) can be avoided without removing yourself from the community. Your choices impact the outcome. Did we focus on these all consuming and divisive topics in your physical presence? Not that I remember, but if so, I apologize- and wish you would have said it made you uncomfortable (so I could adjust) instead of ghosting.


To anyone else who does not like this (or any other) topic, for whatever reason, you can simply stop reading and ignore it. Discussions about a specific topic should not influence your participation in the community.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malevy

OUCH This may be a matter of perspective, but I reached out to you MANY times after you seemed to have disappeared. You removed me from FaceBook, and G+ (when it still existed). You ignored my emails, and texts. How many times can I be ignored before I take the hint- you don't want to associate anymore? Should I beg?! I actually ask this question of myself A LOT, even more so recently as it seems the old norms of socializing are gone forever. I'll stop there, because this is not a therapy session. Point is, unless I am the "ONE" you are talking about (and, I don't think I am)- you are way off base with this. I am sure many other people in the DMA feel the same. You just vanished, and ghosted us. I assume with good reason? But, that is none of my business. Please consider your perception is inaccurate.

Totally understand that you would prioritize your own mental health, etc.. But "removing yourself" never has to be all or nothing. Discussions about specific topics (mostly being online) can be avoided without removing yourself from the community. Your choices impact the outcome. Did we focus on these all consuming and divisive topics in your physical presence? Not that I remember, but if so, I apologize- and wish you would have said it made you uncomfortable (so I could adjust) instead of ghosting.


To anyone else who does not like this (or any other) topic, for whatever reason, you can simply stop reading and ignore it. Discussions about a specific topic should not influence your participation in the community.

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Marc, happy to take this off-thread. I don't feel the need to comment on all this in public. You're not wrong, but there's a lot that lead to the actions I took for my sanity. I acknowledge my perception was potentially only mine, but I'll leave it at that on here.

Hit me up on PM if you want. Hope all is well with you!

Is it just me or do these 'E's not look awfully, I don't know... confusable.

Attachment 68112

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrJeff

Is it just me or do these 'E's not look awfully, I don't know... confusable.

Attachment 68112

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I'm hoping it's a hint.

Wow.

It always amazes me how much drama pervades in this small community.

Honestly who cares what DMCH does anymore? We have other companies here and in Europe nowadays. Yes they don’t have the NOS parts, but they are working hard to reproduce what they can. If you get a C&D, just ignore it.

Next topic…
Will DMCH build a "new" car?
Attachment 68126

They can’t even make new glovebox inserts or taillights or interior quarter panels or LF fenders…etc. And lots of DMCH solutions have been cheap garbage. I’ve personally had my headlights go out at night more than once before I swapped to back to DMCEU/factory style.

If they do make a car, it’ll be worse than a factory early VIN imo.


Edit: I thought those leggings with the logo were photoshopped… Just went on the website and found out they are really trying to sell that shit…

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 81dmc

Wow.

It always amazes me how much drama pervades in this small community.

Honestly who cares what DMCH does anymore? We have other companies here and in Europe nowadays. Yes they don’t have the NOS parts, but they are working hard to reproduce what they can. If you get a C&D, just ignore it.

Next topic…
Will DMCH build a "new" car?
Attachment 68126

They can’t even make new glovebox inserts or taillights or interior quarter panels or LF fenders…etc. And lots of DMCH solutions have been cheap garbage. I’ve personally had my headlights go out at night more than once before I swapped to back to DMCEU/factory style.

If they do make a car, it’ll be worse than a factory early VIN imo.


Edit: I thought those leggings with the logo were photoshopped… Just went on the website and found out they are really trying to sell that shit…

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Wonders out loud about the drama when it's just a discussion.

Goes on to add to said drama with more discussion.

I guess if it's your viewpoints, then it's not drama?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Michael

I guess if it's your viewpoints, then it's not drama?

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Well obviously





Guess I’ll go crawl back in my hole again.

I am new to the DMC Talk. I read people’s complaints of others and it makes me curious as to what is and is not factual. I have no reason to cast aspersions. I try to judge fairly based on history and facts to establish a baseline. So, I did a background search on the 2 contentious Trademark infringement parties that this thread was initially written about….

Plaintiff: DMC-Texas

Litigation and subsequent settlement agreement between DMC-Texas and Sally Delorean in 2014 lead to DMC-Texas obtaining royalties from Universal Studios that previously went to John Z. Delorean’s estate…
https://www.hodgsonruss.com/newsroom...ons-10663.html.

DMC-Texas’ litigation appears to have benefitted the company favorable financially. At this point, sending a cease & desist (C&D) letter to other Delorean businesses is minimal financial cost with respect to the ROI it may potentially generate. Consumers in the Delorean community that are angered by the DMC-Texas C&D letters will indeed buy less DMC product, resulting in lost revenue to DMC-Texas. DMC-Texas may have done a risk assessment and determined that it is financially advisable to still pursue C&D letters regardless of how it may be perceived in the community - this is just my feeling, and it may not be completely accurate.

Defendant: DeloreanRental.com

The person that appears to have started this thread, Jason A. (according to one post), is the party that brought up this C&D issue.
Surprisingly (or not), this is not Jason’s first run-in with copyright infringement. The Chicago Cubs previously brought a copyright infringement case against him and business partners…
https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/...-1_16-cv-09140

I do not know whether Jason was found guilty in the Cubs infringement case or will settle with DMC-Texas. However, there is a common trend in this thread: using other parties' property (intellectual or physical) for one’s own gains. I understand that we live in a free marketplace society – I hope that DMC and Jason are fair to one another during any court proceedings (if it comes to that).

Unfortunately, if the past is any indication of the future, both Jason and DMC will probably capitalize on other’s previously-owned intellectual property or Deloreans themselves for personal, professional and/or financial gains. It is up to you, the consumer, to determine whether you want to work with entities that abuse that privilege.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malevy

To anyone else who does not like this (or any other) topic, for whatever reason, you can simply stop reading and ignore it. Discussions about a specific topic should not influence your participation in the community.

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Rest assured it isn't anything like that at all. I can handle discussions about sometimes sensitive topics. I even know how to leave things alone and walk away when need be. But rest assured this isn't the case here for myself, and quite likely many others.

The DeLorean community is becoming more and more toxic.

Some of it may be people trying to inject politics and personal opinions whenever they can, some may be outright trolling. Most of that doesn't bother me because I can just tune most of that out. But it doesn't help other people who are looking for support and community. Case in point, right now over on a Facebook group for DeLorean Restoration Projects, someone posted a picture of their spreadsheet containing their budget for parts. Support from others and encouragement. Until there comes along some nasty comment shaming the poster, calling them "DMCH's bitch" for buying parts from them. Not advice on a better source for parts, but a direct insult to the OP. Seriously, what is the entire fucking point of that?

I've seen the online community migrate from USENET to DMCNews, and then watched the first successful schism to DMCTalk here. Then I saw the next one for DMCToday. Then yet another to Facebook, and now those groups have fractured apart. And with every split things just become worse and worse. Instead of sticking with a single community with codes of conduct where we either respect one another or leave, everyone throws an absolute temper tantrum and stomps off to create their own little digital fiefdom elsewhere...until that one too just goes through the same pathetic cycle where people just move on and it starts again but with more anger and bitterness.

Make no mistake though, it's not just the online community. It's happening in real life too. More than once so far I have been caught in the middle of DeLorean people feuding with one another and practically demanded to take a side against another person or people. I'm tired of it. So I decided to just ghost everyone equally. The miniscule number of people whom I'm still friends with online are essentially ones who have been benign all this time. The Facebook groups I've monitored are all ones where people actually help one another. And even then I've not just left many groups, but I'm lucky if I go online once a week now. The media exposure is nasty enough to contend with. Which is why I deleted Facebook off my phone, along with Twitter which has been deactivated, and I've just declined to join others. But the final step was essentially just abandoning people in real life as well. I'm not going to take sides, or even passively take part in all of this fighting and battling of egos.

Sure the same could be said of practically every other club out there. But this is the community I chose to be apart of. In fact, I've spent over nearly 26 years being apart of this community, and come March I will have owned a DeLorean for over half of my actual life. It has been a huge part of my life that influenced and caused everything from my career and even marriage existing. And I'm telling you right now that I don't like what it has become.

Make no mistake, it isn't because I'm upset that I'm not getting attention, or influencing other people. I know who I am, and who I am not. In the grand scheme of things I am an absolute nobody. I checked out of the community for a while and things went on without me. I was not missed then, and know that I never will be in the future. But it isn't right to treat new owners and prospective ones who still rank as enthusiasts like shit, let alone teach them that they need to act in these negative ways as well. These people deserve the same community that I was first apart of. Mentors who helped educate. Brethren who encouraged action. And a community that cared and answered questions with compassion, no matter how trivial, repetitive, or outright dumb they may have been. That's all gone now. What's replaced it is a bunch of people who want to scream snarky insults, trash talk vendors (which why the hell is it such an in-thing to hate Houston?) and always dominate to create some sort of authoritative image for themselves. Even if it is only in their own mind.

I never bought a Corvette because I found Corvette owners to be stereotypical assholes (which come to find out I've since encountered some hardcore owners who agree with me and urged me to look past that), and I never wanted to be associated with those kind of people. I liked the DeLorean community because if there was a typical DeLorean owner, it was someone eccentric. Pleasant enough to be around, awkward at times perhaps, but good people none the less. That has clearly changed. I may have mis-stepped in the past, but I choose to make a conscious decision to try a be a better person than I was in the past. More importantly, I'm not taking sides. I'm not getting caught up in gossip. I don't necessarily think that I'm better than anyone else, but I sure as hell know that I don't want to become worse.

I don't recognize a good portion, if not the majority, of this community any longer. I'm not naïve though. I realize that we cannot go backwards to the past. But what you can do is create a better community going forward for others.