I hate to be Captain obvious, but even if you pay a mechanic $100 an hour you will still eat your lunch that day and sleep in your own home with all its expenses. You can only classify these as savings if you starve yourself and rent your house out for the duration the mechanic is working on your car.Quote:
Originally Posted by stevedmc
And I'm going to have tools around my house whether or not I own a Delorean because I am a man. Its David T that wants the play the silly game of nickel and dime-ing, not me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tillsy
I don't mean to be "playing a silly game" by accounting for expenses. You seem to be very exacting in keeping track of all of your expenses for the parts you buy. I am only pointing out that if you do the work yourself on your car there are some tools and supplies you need to buy even if you are a MAN and have tools around the house. When you pay a shop to work on your car THEY have to buy the tools that they use on your car and that is hidden in the price you pay them to work on your car. Along with shop supplies like rags, solvent, gloves, disposal costs, rent, etc. For a fair comparison you should include at least something for that. The big advantage to doing your own work (assuming you can do it competently) is you do not have to pay the shop it's profit or any tax on labor. You can also price the parts better, most shops will buy parts at a discount and charge the customer list. Then there is the whole honesty issue, is the shop really fixing the car as inexpensively and efficiently as it can? On the other side, are you able to fix it the first time and not replace good parts till you accidentally replace the bad part or are you getting it right all the time? This whole premise is meant for only a qualified few who are able to fix a car and have enough tools and expertise and a place to work. It also assumes you are not doing a "Rolling Restoration". The majority of owners do not meet this criteria. But it is an interesting exercise.
David Teitelbaum
I thought I was also supposed to include labor in my cost. If you don't like this thread then I suggest you start your own and list every tool you own and what you paid for it.
You don't include your labor, that is the whole point of doing your own work. What I am trying to say to you is that included in a shops' labor rate is a bunch of other "hidden" expenses that anyone will incur who does work. As a fair comparison you should include them along with the price of parts. Or at least attempt to. It is not that I dislike this thread, I am trying to help you make it a more accurate comparison. As for including every tool, they are "amortized" over many years and cars so you cannot directly apply each and every tool. Specialized ones such as the drain plug adapter which is ONLY used on the Delorean are easier to figure. Try to look at it from a shop's position. They have to cover every cost AND make a profit. They do not itemize every expense. There is a lot more to this than the price of parts and a shop's posted labor rate.
David Teitelbaum
So start a thread and do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by David T
While I don't disagree with this, at the same time you shouldn't start a thread on a discussion forum if you're not interested in discussing your posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by stevedmc
Restating the question should help.
"Can an amateur car/motor enthusiast with only commonly available tools keep a Delorean running10,000 miles per year, for less than $500 out-of-pocket?"
Isn't this the question that most of us would like to know? BTW, my garage looks nothing like the garage pictures that others have shared. For mine imagine a classic suburban 2 car garage with a Delorean parked in the middle, surrounded on both sides by some tools but mostly years of accumulated boxes, kids bikes, and yard junk.
I'm all for discussing my posts but some people insist on knocking other people's ideas. Dave should already be pleased that I'm almost at twice my budget for the year. Frankly, he and many others have already won, yet he still insists that I'm doing things wrong because I'm not doing it his way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Accipiter
David can't really be characterized as having a "thinking outside the box" approach to automotive maintenance and repair. He is much more "by the book."
While there's nothing wrong with "by the book," it *IS* more expensive than "thinking outside the box."
Steve Rice and Bill Robertson can very definitely be characterized as "thinking outside the box." Whatever anyone wants to say about Steve Rice's and Bill Robertson's approach to automotive maintenance and repair, it *IS* less expensive than "by the book."
Spec .01 exhaust is a perfect example. Spec .01 is true dual exhaust, 100% stainless steel, but only costs a fraction of vendor dual exhaust options (less than $200).
Of course carburetion, after the initial conversion cost (it *DOES* require replacing everything from the heads north, including a hand made intake manifold of totally different design) is significantly less expensive than many owners' experience with K-Jet.
Other examples abound: single piece speedometer cable for $7. Heater core shutoff valve for $10 (that won't ever leak). Ice cold A/C for $12. Etc.
Thinking outside the box also includes modifying the original design to improve it. The Byrne Heninger/Ed Uding front suspension combo is a perfect example of that. Combined with a vibration reducing steering column, the DeLorean driving experience is revolutionized (or so other owners who have driven Steve Rice's and Bill Robertson's cars have reported).
There is nothing strange or mysterious about DeLoreans. Anyone with typical tools -- and a "thinking outside the box" approach to automotive maintenance and repair -- can put thousands of miles every year on his DeLorean with very little expenditure of time or money. Bill Robertson doesn't even have a garage! (Yet).