Air conditioning newby... DIY your pay someone else?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NightFlyer

Again, HC-12a is a generic term, with the 'HC' simply meaning hydrocarbon. It's just an identifier, and doesn't signify anything more. Basically, the reason for the discrepancy in FrostyCool's advertising of their 12a cans is that the cans are designed for use with R-134a can taps and fittings, thus why they proclaim it as being for a "retrofit" system. But the actual refrigerant in the can is essentially the same as any other 12a hydrocarbon refrigerant.

---

This may well be true, but not how it reads to me, as I said. And I could not find anything similar to what seems to be your logical opinion/conclusion. In fact, I just read it all again and it says, "FrostyCool 12a Replacement Refrigerant along with mineral oil are Incompatible with butyl rubber hoses". That covers a lot of R-12 systems running around (incompatible)! I suspect FrostyCool is a HC-12a based product but has other things in it making it this way, or, the first link is wrong about it being a drop in. It may be the best thing ever for other systems, including conversions. Dunno, don't care, it's not worth any added risk, the price difference, and certainly not having pressure data for individual vehicles/systems when it comes to diagnostics later! (Or going on about ;-)

Nix the political tidbits.

Are stances on regulatory action really considered political? If they are, then how come the threads making fun of government/DMV weight listings on vehicle registrations weren't also warned against political statements? Or what about the threads making fun of state government vehicle safety and/or emissions inspections - again, no warning from mods.

And yet, it seems like every time I merely mimic what others appear to do on a regular basis without censure, I get warned or PM'd or lectured by the mods.

Sorry, but I'm honestly really confused here :headscratch:

Perhaps there should be a better definition of that which is considered 'political' as well as consistent across the board moderation of that rule, as then I'd be far less apt to apparently violate said rule...

If you want to talk about safety, Freon was created by the Germans before WW II as a precursor for Phosgene gas. What that means is if you burn freon you get a deadly nerve gas. As if that isn't dangerous enough, escaping Freon (any condensed gas for that matter) , if it gets on the skin, causes frostbite. I agree the flammability problem may be overstated but it still exists. Even with Freon the oil is flammable. If you want to talk about a REALLY dangerous refrigerant what about Ammonia. It is outlawed in small residential units but is still in use in large commercial systems. It is highly toxic, flammable and very corrosive. When Freon was being promoted it was promoted as a "Safety Refrigerant". It was, compared to what was in common use at the time. Compared to the 20 or so gallons of gasoline in most cars, it would seem the flammability of a couple of pounds of refrigerant is a non-issue. From the government's point of view, obsoleting a product so you have to buy new is good for the economy. Look what just happened to televisions. It may be a little harder to get -12 but it is not difficult or all that expensive. If it ever gets to that point you can always suck some out of an old refrigerator or window unit.
David Teitelbaum

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ron

This may well be true, but not how it reads to me, as I said. And I could not find anything similar to what seems to be your logical opinion/conclusion. In fact, I just read it all again and it says, "FrostyCool 12a Replacement Refrigerant along with mineral oil are Incompatible with butyl rubber hoses". That covers a lot of R-12 systems running around (incompatible)! I suspect FrostyCool is a HC-12a based product but has other things in it making it this way, or, the first link is wrong about it being a drop in. It may be the best thing ever for other systems, including conversions. Dunno, don't care, it's not worth any added risk, the price difference, and certainly not having pressure data for individual vehicles/systems when it comes to diagnostics later! (Or going on about ;-)

---

Not that it matters, but HC-12a is actually nothing more than a registered trade/product mark of OZ Technology, Inc.

http://www.oztechnologyinc.com/hc12a.html

If you compare the MSDS for HC-12a or other 12a products, you'll see that they're essentially the same, with little variation. The drop in statement came from a Wikipedia entry that claims to be specifically about HC-12a, but speaks about automotive hydrocarbon refrigerants in general terms, thus I wouldn't place too much stock in the technical/specific accuracy of the Wikipedia entry. I was merely using it to reference hydrocarbon refrigerants in general, as opposed to being specifically about OZ Technology Inc's blend of 12a. Remember 12a blends aren't patented, so while only OZ can call their product 'HC-12a,' other 12a products could and probably do contain the exact same blend of hydrocarbons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David T

Look what just happened to televisions.

---

If you're referring to the switch from NTSC to ATSC, the government actually provided people with coupons for converter boxes. Thus, all it did for the economy at the time of implementation was to take US citizen's tax dollars and put them into the hands of foreign corporations/manufacturers. Not sure how that helped the US economy any...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NightFlyer

Not that it matters, but HC-12a is actually nothing more than a registered trade/product mark of OZ Technology, Inc.

http://www.oztechnologyinc.com/hc12a.html

If you compare the MSDS for HC-12a or other 12a products, you'll see that they're essentially the same, with little variation. The drop in statement came from a Wikipedia entry that claims to be specifically about HC-12a, but speaks about automotive hydrocarbon refrigerants in general terms, thus I wouldn't place too much stock in the technical/specific accuracy of the Wikipedia entry. I was merely using it to reference hydrocarbon refrigerants in general, as opposed to being specifically about OZ Technology Inc's blend of 12a. Remember 12a blends aren't patented, so while only OZ can call their product 'HC-12a,' other 12a products could and probably do contain the exact same blend of hydrocarbons.

---

OK. Now we are together. I was only saying be careful with the "good information" because at first look it appears they were exactly the same not essentially, which it seems we can agree on. IE The information in the second link has some "qualifying remarks" that raised concern for me WRT compatibility (in one direction). I can see trying it after a full flush with no mineral oil...or ester, because of delivery problems if 134a etc was a fair possibility in its future -- Blend = Bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NightFlyer

Are stances on regulatory action really considered political? If they are, then how come the threads making fun of government/DMV weight listings on vehicle registrations weren't also warned against political statements? Or what about the threads making fun of state government vehicle safety and/or emissions inspections - again, no warning from mods.

And yet, it seems like every time I merely mimic what others appear to do on a regular basis without censure, I get warned or PM'd or lectured by the mods.

Sorry, but I'm honestly really confused here :headscratch:

Perhaps there should be a better definition of that which is considered 'political' as well as consistent across the board moderation of that rule, as then I'd be far less apt to apparently violate said rule...

---

PERIOD!

EDIT(Sorry....fire call):
The posts/tibits remain because they are no big deal, although mostly OT and political (exercise in discretion).
View my post as preventive maintenance, if you will.
Consider- A tidbit her and there, and before I can answer you, a whole post on politics/safety (~ok too), and a reply. Most members know what will probably be next. History does.

Please PM your favorite moderator instead of further cluttering the thread with OT :smile:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David T

There is no good reason to not use R-12. You do not need a lot and it is not THAT expensive. You can still get it at places like E-Bay.
David Teitelbaum

---

Other than the cost, there is the advantage that with a hydrocarbon refrigerant if you need to disassemble your AC system you can just vent the refrigerant to the air without harming the environment. Unfortunately because of the crazy way the law was written its not legal, but at least its within the spirit of the law as far as protecting the environment is concerned.

So I finished up my write-up on rebuilding my AC and it's here:

http://delorean6575revisited.blogspo...ystem-and.html

This is probably the most in depth post I've done on my car. I had a ton of help from lots of people on the forum and I'm much obliged. Again, I'm no AC expert but mthy results have been excellent and hopefully they'll stand the test of time. There was SO much with this and knew next to nothing about AC when I began, so think of this write-up as my 'notes' as I went along. That's how my blog developed; as notes to help me remember what I did. I'm a big believer in you have to know how something works in order to troubleshoot and fix it.

Within the write-up, I went over a little bit of everything.

- a little bit of theory
- components of the AC system and what they do
- evaporator installation
- condenser flushing
- Hervey split hose installation
- accumulator installation
- installing the orifice tube (ugh)
- new compressor installation
- o-ring installation
- filling with R12
- adjusting the LP switch
- upgrading the fan circuit breaker to a 30a

And probably more that I can't think of.

Again, I'm no expert so if there's something that's not correct or needs to be fixed, please let me know.

Enjoy!