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So what are these things and what are most people doing to replicate these? Making them a solid part or actually pieces and hollow as they are on the car? Starting out I think I am just going to make some simple solid models for the hockey pucks. Can you give some dimensions of these parts? Mainly just the thickness and diameter and angle of the cut out? Also, these aren't just mounted to 1/8" aluminum like the caps are. What is the base made of and dimension of it as well?
The pacman parts are made up of 4 main components:Quote:
Originally Posted by smcguiga
The "Puck" itself is an unknown component that has never been identified "in the wild" but has been painstakingly replicated by TMR to exact specs. The puck is made up of about 2 dozen smaller parts... It's a hollow aluminum housing with a separate roller assembly inside, covered with a flat plate.
The "Cone" that is internal to the Puc is a drawer pull handle. The exact source of the originals is unknown but it has also been replicated in the past using measurements from the real one.
The upper portion of the base is a drawn aluminum enclosure (manufactured by Zero company) that is trimmed to look like a dished out square plate with curved edges. Part No. ZT68-68B-0.56
The lower portion of the base is an ash tray housing from a DC-10 aircraft. It was pretty heavily modified to remove the outer flange and some of the other features so it fits flush to the zero can on top. Part No. 293-5002
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If you want to build close approximations and not go crazy with the detail on the internal guts of the pucks you can save lots of time, money and effort.
To answer your specific questions:
Puc diameter is 3" with a height of 1 7/16" when fully assembled.
The angle of the wedge shaped cutout is 30 degrees.
I'll have to look up the exact dimensions for the height of the assembled base. I'll post some additional info here with a few pictures and basic overall dims.
Here are some overall dimensions of the complete assembly. If you're looking to build some basic replicas this should have all the required dimensions to get you there.
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?at...4&d=1477920099
Awesome! Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark D
What is the correct PN for the ashtray is it 293-5002 or 293-5000?Quote:
Originally Posted by smcguiga
293-5002 is the lower part of the ash tray base that is actually needed.
The photo on the right shows the unmodified base 293-5002. On the left is a modified base that has been attached to the zero can top.
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?at...8&d=1480728820
Here's what just just the modified base would look like from the other side with no zero can attached to it.
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?at...6&d=1480728818
293-5000 is the complete ash tray assembly that also contains the actual tray insert:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?at...7&d=1480728818
If you buy 293-5000 you'll need to remove the tray insert and modify as above.
Probably and easy question but there are so many tire threads I can't find a definitive answer. What size tires and brand model tires where on the origional a model time machine front and rear ?
The screen used cars were originally built with the stock Goodyear NCT's installed (235/60/15 rear, 195/60/14 front) but were swapped to outline white lettered Goodyear Eagle GT's (245/60/15 rear, 195/60/14 front). Note the slightly larger size on the rear than stock.
Awesome I like the look and plan to replicate it on my car. The sizes that is. I wish you could still get white letter eagle gt'size for frontQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark D
Yeah the Eagle GT's with OWL are long out of production and even finding solid white letter tires is difficult. I know a few guys here have used white tire paint to fill in the letters on their tires, or there are places you can order special rubber stickers to stick on your tires for the white letter effect. Tirestickers.com is one of those places worth checking out.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerline84
You can get cooper cobras for the front if you look around. They are discontinued but I found a stack of 20 at a local tire shop last year. So im running RWL all around and 245s on the back. Love it!Quote:
Originally Posted by powerline84
I called them back not too long ago and all those tires were gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
Did you paint the fronts like me or did you actually get legit RWL 195's?!
What was the reason for this? just aesthetics?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark D
Yeah I scooped up most of them quick haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg3205
I painted my letters on, I dont think Cooper ever made RWL 195s.
I got one back up set. I should be good for 20 years. They actually did make a 195 with legit RWL. I have one. My bud in the tire biz gave it to me. Only has 50% tread left but could be swapped on in the event of a bad enough blow out.
I don't have a verified answer from anyone at universal why they swapped to the Eagle GT's.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg3205
Several theories include:
The Goodyear NCT's were recalled due to poor traction in cold/wet conditions, so it's possible before filming started the tires on the cars were swapped to comply with the recall.
Or the stock tires could have already been partially warn so production could have just wanted a fresh set. The filming schedule called for stunt scenes (burnouts, high speed driving, etc) so before they started to film they could have given the cars a once over to prevent issues that would potentially interrupt filming.
Or there could have been a product placement agreement with Goodyear and the NCT's were black wall and wouldn't have shown up on screen. The white letter Eagle GT's would show up on camera better and were also a performance tire worth marketing.
It is absolutely not safe to use a tire that has been sitting for 10+ years. I hope you're joking.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg3205
No. Im not joking. New, never-mounted tires stored properly (though not as good as any new rubber of course) are not the risk they're made out to be. Would I pull a used tire out of a landfill after 10 years? No. I worked for a tire shop and recycler at one point in time and learned a lot about tires.Quote:
Originally Posted by nullset
FYI - 90% of mexico is running around on old, used Canadian and American tires that get sold and exported south of your border. There are standards that must be met, but they are older, used tires none the less.
Attachment 48025
My buddy is trying to build this. Anyone that's done this can you pm me with details that you have? I saw in the thread about the boxes and led.s still have questions on the dial pad. Dimensions of assemblies etc.
Thanks,
Jimmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerline84
All of the TRW keypads came from APEX electronics in Sun Valley, CA. They are the only source and held the last remaining stock of keypads when TRW liquidated their stock sometime in the 70's or 80's. Last I checked on their ebay page they had a few up for sale, although in needs of different types of repair. The green housings are pretty fragile and require cutting to fit exactly as they did in the screen used cars. Most people opt for a casting of the green housing and use the guts out of an original TRW pad, or use a similar keypad from GTE. The buttons/indicators can also be cast, or people use real ones out of a legit keypad assembly.
So you've either got to find a real one and scavenge it for parts, or find someone with castings of a real one.
Or if you're not interested in accuracy any number of keypads are out there. Phone pads are a standard size for the most part, so you can cruise around ebay or electronics websites to see what's out there.
For the actual time circuit display enclosures I posted PN's a few pages back in this thread, and as I stated before, accurate sized LED displays with the correct digit height DO NOT CURRENTLY EXIST. You can get close with commercially available parts but height of the characters on the display will either be under or oversized depending on which way you want to go.
TMR is working on making the correct LED displays available again but there are large tooling costs involved and huge minimum order quantities to make it economically feasible. A company called TFX has been working with TMR and there is a time circuit clock in the works that has accurate display electronics.
Awesome Sir thanks a bunch!
Hi Mark,
I was wondering if you are able to offer some detailed dimensions for the T-195 Radio Vent that sits on the back please? If you have a cross-section or cut-through that would be awesome!
Thank you!
I have info on this that I can share, just none at my fingertips at the moment. I'll post some measurements and additional info when I can.Quote:
Originally Posted by "What The Flux?"
Thanks Mark, any help appreciatedQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark D
Here are some T-195 Radio Vent reference photos I found on Gary's FB page with some measurements:
https://www.facebook.com/pg/bttfpart...40314762757990
Looks like the photos that were posted are better reference than the mockup CAD model that I created. It's really just a placeholder and I forgot that I never went back and did a full on detailed model for it. If you're just looking for basic photos and overall dims what you're looking for is there in the pics.Quote:
Originally Posted by "What The Flux?"
Otherwise the vents do pop up on ebay from time to time, or there are places online that deal with old radios that might be able to sell you just the vent cover if you want to buy a legit one.
I have been to APEX and the two other surplus stores where many of the original BTTF parts were sourced. I also have copies of the numerous original invoices for many of the original sourced parts.
Realistically, non of these parts are available at any of these sources any more. They were surplus items that existed in the 1980s and are long gone. (Even in the "expensive item trailer" - that is restricted access.).
I think it is great that people are reproducing these parts.
However, I have a problem with people claiming their cars are "screen accurate." ALL THREE ORIGINAL BTTF CARS WERE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FROM EACH OTHER.
The "perfect" parts and cars you find today and also NOT reflective of a custom built Time Machine - made by a mad scientist in his garage. His car would simply not look that good!
The fact that Terry and Olivers car looks "beat up" because of the 100,000 miles they have driven-makes it the closest looking to a "mad scientist-garage built time machine."
Bob
Can you expand on this more? Are you saying you have copies of invoices from Filmtrix/USH from when they purchased parts for production in 1984?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob635
This is mostly true, but places like APEX are finding stuff all the time and listing it on ebay. Just a few months ago there were half a dozen TRW keypads for sale from APEX. For hoses, places like Luky's may not have the exact hose that is needed but you can scrounge through the pile and buy one or more hoses just for the end fittings and they can crimp these ends on new hose to the correct length as long as the correct size crimp (ferrule) is available.Quote:
Realistically, none of these parts are available at any of these sources any more. They were surplus items that existed in the 1980s and are long gone. (Even in the "expensive item trailer" - that is restricted access.).
It's awesome what people have come up with in terms of castings or 3D printed replica parts. I also agree that the term "Screen Accurate" is tossed around way to liberally in most cases. You can say you have a screen accurate part if it's the exact vintage part used as the production cars, but as you noted there were differences between the three cars in terms of not only parts but how the parts were mounted to the car. Almost no one has ever built a 100% screen accurate replica. The best a person can really say is as close to screen accurate as possible, and then you should really specify if it was built to look like the A, B, or C car or some combination of the three. One of the main things most people don't consider when touting screen accuracy is the mounting locations of everything on the rear deck, bulkhead panels and the fiberglass pontoons. Positioning of the parts is just as important as the actual parts themselves and it takes an incredible amount of knowledge to get it exactly correct.Quote:
I think it is great that people are reproducing these parts.
However, I have a problem with people claiming their cars are "screen accurate." ALL THREE ORIGINAL BTTF CARS WERE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FROM EACH OTHER.
Attaining that aged/weathered effect is difficult for most people to achieve, so outside of years of actual use and weathering a lot of replicas do look too new and clean compared to what they should. Years of research went into correctly weathering the A car during the restoration so it would accurately appear as it did when it first rolled out of Doc's truck.Quote:
The "perfect" parts and cars you find today and also NOT reflective of a custom built Time Machine - made by a mad scientist in his garage. His car would simply not look that good!
The fact that Terry and Olivers car looks "beat up" because of the 100,000 miles they have driven-makes it the closest looking to a "mad scientist-garage built time machine."
Mark,
Thanks for your accurate description that no BTTF Delorean is Truely "screen accurate" because each A, B, C car was slightly different. And that most Time Machines look new.
I was very impressed with the work done on the A car restoration, but as you know, even this car is not restored to "exactly" how it was used in the movie. (e.g. numbered months.)
One question, I pose to people about the "screen accurate" car. Did the movie give the illusion that the BTTF Delorean was a hot rod engine? Clearly, the exhaust tone was NOT a PRV engine.
So should a "screen accurate" car have a hot rod engine? The "Delorean" in BTTF III was a hot rod engine -albeit a VW- BUT is was not a PRV. So exactly what is a "screen accurate" Time Machine?
What really bothers me with this situation is that there are certain Time Machine owners, who rent their car, and who are going around "bad mouthing" other people's time machines- claiming that theirs is the only "screen accurate" car, making them huge amounts of money and not sharing this benefit with other D owners who had the dedication to do this conversion.
After all these years, since 1995, when I negotiated with Universal Studios to get the permission for people to build Time Machines, without getting sued, now I hear of serious infighting amongst different Time Machine owners. I negotiated this permission for everyone to share, NOT FOR CERTAIN people to hoard.
As for the copies of the invoices for parts, these came from Kevin Pike, way back in the early 1990s, when I was researching and obtaining parts to build the first Time Machine - hot rod- Delorean.
As you know, 2 years ago, I also developed the wheel conversion parts for this car to make it look like a BTTF III car, and reproduced the parts for the Pepsi box, using my 3D printer, and old radio tubes and electronics from the 1950s.
I share this cars with people who come to Delorean Weekend to inspire them to maintain and upgrade their Delorean to "Live the Dream."
Over the years, I have admired all the work you did to develop Time Machine parts, especially with all the LED and PLC components that exist today. I was limited by TTL logic back in the 90s.
My Current "Dream Delorean" project is another attempt to share my experience with other D owners to update their cars. As JZD said to me back in Cleveland when studying my full size power windows. "You a damn good engineer. If I had had more people like you, I would still be in business."
I always remember him saying this to me, and continue to try to live up to his expectations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark D
Thank you both for your guidance. I was somewhat hesitant to have to refer to that particular FB page for information, but measurements are measurements I guess. I was just enquiring as I know that Mark has some very useful resource and experience in this area and have observed that he is very keen to help.Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidProehl
@Bob365 I appreciate your comments and found them interesting to read. I believe that the politics of other known builders and their motives is perhaps better saved for another forum as I don't think it's really related to the objective of Marks thread here. He has stated "Ask Me Anything", but I'm not sure he meant the more negative aspects of the community. I think there are enough pages ruined by bullshit disputes and personal dislikes and its a pain to have to wade through all of the unimportant, unrelated shit to find the really useful, valid information. Just saying...
I try not to get into the screen accuracy debates anymore, but you're right that it's something that is open for interpretation depending on which version (A, B, or C) a person is building. Some people interpret screen accuracy as literally what you see on the screen (including special effects & sounds) and some interpret it more along the lines of how accurate something is to the physical prop as it was constructed and not necessarily including some of the movie magic effects. I think the line is blurred somewhere between the two personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob635
The infighting seems to have quieted down some in the BTTF builders community... I hope it can continue on a path where people are more freely able to share information without all the issues we've experienced in the past. The point of this thread was to try and share whatever I could while the restoration was still fresh in my memory.
It's pretty epic that you got the nod of approval from John Z on your roll down windows. I remember being just a kid and seeing pics of your car and thinking how awesome it was that you were able to re-engineer them the way you did.
It's also a cool story to hear about how Kevin Pike hooked you up with some of the old invoices for parts from the build. Is that something you'd be willing to share photos or scans of? At this point the collective community has figured out nearly every part on the car, but it would be really cool to see some of that old historical info.
Any info on the various "elbow" connectors?
(3 on the rear driver side, 1 on top of the VSR, 2 on the oxygen bottle box, several on flux capacitor)
The elbows are "Cannon" brand military spec connectors w/ 90 deg shell. There are two different sizes, PN's 3108B20 AND 3108B32. Some come with a green coating while others have a silver coating. It's also an option to buy all green and sand blast or chemically strip off the coating to reveal the raw silver color underneath.
In total you'll need:
(Size 32's)
2 silver/unplated for bailout bottle box
1 green plated for Flux Capacitor
(Size 20's)
3 green for DS pontoon
1 silver/unplated for VSR
1 silver/unplated for Flux Capacitor
Chances are you'll find lots of parts under those PN's but they'll be Amphenol brand connectors and not Cannon. They're all made to the same mill spec under the same PN but only the Cannon brand connectors are correct. The only exception to this is the C-car flux capacitor which uses a size 32 amphenol connector on the side instead of the Cannon style.
A few more notes about the PN's... What I have listed above are the base part numbers, but when searching you'll need the -tabulation at the end which specifies numbers of pins, and if it's a plug or a socket. Since the connectors don't actually connect into anything meaningful on the car plug/socket style and pins do not matter.
So for example the PN you'd want to search for might look like 3108B20-16S. The PN breaks down as:
3108B (Connector series, 90 deg right angle plug)
20 (AN size)
16 (number of pins)
S (Socket)
You'll also need the plastic dust caps that would normally protect the pins/sockets. To mount the parts to the car typically production used a screw to mount the dust cap, and simply inserted the plug into the dust cap. There wasn't much else holding the parts in place besides the friction between the plug and dust cap, so they tended to fall off and go missing pretty easily. For replica cars you can secure them better by disassembling the connector, drilling through the internal socket to mount with a nut and bolt, and then reassembling the connector around the socket. Essentially you're adding a stud to the connector that you can secure with a nut to whatever it's getting attached to.
Each plug is made up of about a dozen smaller pieces. In some cases you may only be able to find a seller with the correct shell and you'll have to source the strain relief at the top part of the connector and the dust cap separately. Here's an exploded view of a size 20 connector for reference:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?at...4&d=1485882737
The connectors can be crazy expensive, and the few sources that were found back in the day with lots of parts in stock were quickly depleted. Your best source for searching now are websites that allow NSN searches for military/aerospace parts. Every great once in a while real ones will pop up on ebay. Or you can find someone who's selling castings.
If you have any other questions or need clarification on anything let me know.
Awesome, this helps a lot. Thanks Mark.
Hello
I was wondering if anyone out there would be able to provide measurements/ dimensions (maybe CAD) for a set of screen-accurate exhaust vents, and engine cover. I intend to use 1/8 inch aluminum. I stumbled on some cad designs by Mr Weaver, but I don't think his are screen accurate ( Exhaust vents do not seem to drop below rear bumper cover). Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Charlie
Gary's drawings are what I used to make mine. The original vents were built with the lower portion removable because it actually hooks under the upper lip on the rear fascia. If it were all one piece you wouldn't be able to lift the engine cover. At any rate the parts are there in his drawings.Quote:
Originally Posted by cpistocco
Sort of like this but the real one hooks under - not just a diagonal cut. See the seam?
Attachment 48766
Here's a better example...
Attachment 48767
And here's one where the bottom has been removed to open the cover.
Attachment 48768
Somewhere I have a diagram identifying. I'll see if I can find it. Might be tomorrow because I think it's at work.
Cheers
Steve
The parts highlighted in red are the vent side pieces in Weaver's layout that extend downward over the tail lights. They're not form fit to the fascia like on the A car but they're close enough for most people.
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?at...9&d=1486105583
On the A car the side pieces of the vents were originally form fit over the fascia and tight up against the tail lights to give the illusion that the fascia and tail lights were actually notched out and the vents were sticking through the fascia. In real life the form fit pieces had to be removed every time production wanted to access the engine during filming. After filming wrapped on Part III the transportation garage at Universal Hollywood modified the vents to notch out that bottom piece (similar to how Weaver has designed them) so the lower part of the vents stand off from the tail lights and will clear the fascia when the engine cover is opened.
Very Interesting...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark D
Thanks for the info. There is just one thing that I don't understand....
Why not design everything as one piece.....leaving out notch allows you to clear bumper cover either way. Why do it in 2 pieces?
Do you follow what I am saying?
Yeah I get what you're saying. In this case it would have made sense to just design the side plates as one large piece since there is no reason to ever remove the lower section of the vents once assembled. I haven't gone through these CAD's in detail at all, but on the A car each of the four total side plates are slightly different to account for different holes that were drilled and to account for the curvature of the rear fascia. If you were to modify the side plates to combine the lower sections with the main upper sections to make them one piece you'd want to be sure to use the correct lower section with the correct upper section. In this CAD layout the lower sections might actually all the be the same, I'm not sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by cpistocco
Other things in this CAD don't exactly match the screen used car but in terms of the final look when it's completely built it would be better than trying to start over from scratch. I don't think Weaver comes on this board anymore so if you have questions about his layout you'd be better off contacting him on his BTTFParts facebook page.
I used Gary's CAD for min but then modified the bottom pieces to fit around the fascia. Because mine are from gator board I chose to permanently attach them to the main part of the vents. It works for me because I typically have to remove the vents completely to transport the whole thing. I don't drive with it in place so engine access is not an issue for me.
Attachment 48789
BTW - if you are planning on having the engine cover cut our of metal too, make sure you don't forget the little wedges that weld to the edges to create a lip that sits over the ridge in the pontoon - just like the factory cover does.
Here's a more detailed pic of the reactor. Everything here is found at the home center. Note, I didn't worry too much that the plumbing hoses weren't exactly correct. My "oil separators" are empty engine coolant bottles I painted. The cross over tube fittings are PVC plumbing that I shaped on a bet sander, my alum hoses are too big, the hubcap is not screen accurate but was close enough, the reactor top is another hubcap piece, the heat sink fins around the reactor I fabricated from plywood.
Attachment 48790
I have since got the correct hubcap and the Pioneer speaker grille that goes on the tachyon generator (both from E-bay)
Attachment 48791
A close turbine for the top (from a friend) and the rubber mat used for the vent joint and on the tachyon gen (Amazon)
Attachment 48792
The correct heat sinks (direct from supplier)
Attachment 48793
I have found one oil separator (working on finding another) and have the correct aluminum hoses on order.
Let me know if you need any more help.
Cheers
Steven