Poll: Did your Delorean Have a Tool Kit In It When You Purchased It? What VIN?

Tim Dufrense and I are debating this question:

Poll: Did your Delorean Have a Tool Kit In It When You Purchased It? What VIN?

-Yes, it came with a tool kit when I bought it (tool kit came with car originally or previous owner purchased tool kit seperately and left it with the car)
-No, there is no tool kit in the jack storage area
-I purchased a tool kit separately from the car (please tell us approximately when you bought the tool kit and how much you paid for it)

Also, I am looking for documentation or verification by those of you who purchased tool kits. I am told by one source they were selling from DMCH for $150 a kit, and another source said they were selling for $70-$75 a kit.

Can any of you verify this? I would like the correct answer....

When I purchased 2912 it had one.
When I purchased 16682 it only had the jack kit and no tool kit.

I was not the original owner in either case.

When I purchased 2572 it had both toolkit and jack.
When I purchased 6513 it only had an incomplete jack set.

Didn't bother to buy the original toolkit as my personal toolkit includes all I need.

Toolkits are quite rare, as the Quality Assurance Centers started removing them from vehicles at some point.

Will check 6239 tonight. I know that the jack compartment contains a small pouch with dry-rotting elastic banding around it as I found that in there last year while working on the headlamps.

The tool kits were NOT included in the car unless the selling dealer threw it in or the original owner (or at least a previous owner) bought one. At one point, way back, they were going for $15. Was a warehouse sale by Consolidated. The tool kit is not very useful as far as actual mechanical work is concerned. It is only good for originality. I have mine in the loop that buttons on the strap that holds the spare tire.
David Teitelbaum

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Originally Posted by David T

The tool kits were NOT included in the car unless the selling dealer threw it in or the original owner (or at least a previous owner) bought one.

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This is incorrect, David. The cars did leave the factory with toolkits installed and they were to be removed at the QACs. In the quality control checklist dated 6/8/81, number 6 on the list states "Remove Tool Kit (Luggage Compartment)".

the the QAC checklist say why they were removing the toolkits?

Of the several hundred cars we've had through here, I've seen a handful with a tool kit. I've never sold one (other than one which happened to be in a car I bought).

I'm talking about the tool kit part 100444, not the jack kit. Usually you get the jack and a lug wrench wrapped in a mouse-eaten bag, and the long jack handle laying loose. (or in the bag if it is an early car with the ratcheting jack)

As Patrick mentioned I have also heard that many were pulled at the QACs and thrown away.

Some interesting reading:
http://www.dmchelp.com/showthread.ph...highlight=tool

According to the linked factory document there, the took kit disappeared when the jack design changed, so the people who mentioned having it in their lower-VIN car make sense. Also note James' comment about Kapac giving them out as freebies.

The last DMCH selling price was $74.77.

No tool kit in 16647 which I bought new ... just the jack.

This poll has made me realize that I don't even carry tools with me anymore ... how adventurous is that? :umm:

1669 came with a tool kit, cleaning kit, 3 jack sets (all different), and a ski rack bag.

I couldn't find where I buried the tool and cleaning kits, nor a straight answer as to which jack set is VIN correct...and the bag is in the museum LOL.

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Originally Posted by Jacko

No tool kit in 16647 which I bought new ... just the jack.

This poll has made me realize that I don't even carry tools with me anymore ... how adventurous is that? :umm:

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Not very adventurously. I carry tools, but not for me, mainly to be able to assist others if their car broke down.
Besides that, rool kits add weight to the front, like a spare can of gas does, which can be helpful.

No tool kit with VIN 573 when I bought it, just the Jack

Best wishes
Don

P.S. My car was initially the car from the Quality manger at DMC in California in 1981/1982. Maybe this helps, why the tool kit is missing.

There was a tool kit in 01955. Not sure if all the tools were in her though, but definately the pouch with the rope to tie it together. Will check again to see what's in the bag.

Just so I know, there are 2 tool sets up front right? (or at least supposed to be)

One that has: 19mm tire wrench, spark plug wrench, jack wrench, jack

And a second that has: 16/17mm spanner wrench, 12/13mm spanner wrench, 10,11mm spanner wrench, pliers, and a reversible screwdriver

Is this correct? Just wondering because given the rarity expressed, the fact that the poll currently has 44% voting yes, I may not be the only one confused.

My car only has the first.

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Originally Posted by Nicholas R

Just so I know, there are 2 tool sets up front right? (or at least supposed to be)

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---- I may not be the only one confused.

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All cars should have the bag with the jack and lug wrench, and maybe the jack handle if the early design jack.

Some early cars will have the smaller bag with the pliers, wrenches etc. I believe the poll is supposed to be about the second bag only but I bet some people didn't get that.

I posted a link about a page back that goes to a post by James on DMCHelp which shows photos of the second small tool bag.

Yes, I am referring to the tool kit and not the jack kit.

What started the debate was this tool kit on ebay currently bid at over $200.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELOREAN-FAC...item43ac71eaab

The first argument was made that if you competed in Delorean Concourse you had to have this tool kit or you would lose 5.75 points (3.25 points plus .5 point for each of the 5 tools) off of the 100 point checklist.

-Another interpretation of the concourse manual was made that the tool kit is worth 3.25 points if completely missing and if you had the pouch but were missing any of each of the 5 tools inside they were worth .5 point each...(i.e. the tool pouch is worth .75 point)

Does anyone who has competed in concourse have the correct answer?


A second argument was made that no tool kits ever made it into Delorean owner's hands because they("thousands") were pulled from the cars at the QACs and Dunmurry factory, stock piled, and then made their way to KAPAK and finally to DMCH.

-Another point of view was that most tool kits were trashed or sold cheap at some point in the last 30 years....and only about 100 kits remained when the inventory was transferred from KAPAK to DMCH.

Does anyone have information or documentation on which point of view is correct?

A final argument was made that the thousands of tool kits left over were sold at a premium (3 figures) by DMCH and are still available for concourse participants at this premium price.

-Another point of view was already by made by Dave S that they sold for around $75 and that a complete kit is no longer available or for sale by DMCH.

Does anyone have any documentation that DMC sold tool kits for more than $75 or that they still sell kits even though they are advertised as unavailable?

This will help me form my own conclusion on the "History/Mystery of the Delorean Toolkit"

Thanks for all of your help guys!

Josh Q

nothing.......what!!!!? it's empty......vin 17111

All this time I thought I had it but had never removed the black bag from the compartment. Turns out it's only the jack kit - I had no idea it came in a black pouch like that.

On the plus side, my jack and handles/lug wrench are absolutely pristine - obviously never used and look like they never saw a molecule of moisture or a single photon in their life. Pretty cool! But no, no auxiliary tool kit.

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Originally Posted by SIMid

There was a tool kit in 01955. Not sure if all the tools were in her though, but definately the pouch with the rope to tie it together. Will check again to see what's in the bag.

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Simon it had a tool kit an jack kit when I bought the car only looked at the stuff once an put it back in their many years ago

Can anyone tell me which jack is correct for VIN 1669, the one with an eye for a folding crank handle or the one that use a lug wrench?

And either way, which lug wrench, one has a slightly deeper well?

THX in advance!

When I said Deloreans were not sold with the tool kits I meant when the cars were delivered to the dealers they did not have them. I can't say if they were never installed or if they were they were removed at the QAC centers. There was a BIG bin of them at the warehouse where I bought mine. I can't say if that bin was all of the tool kits removed at the QAC centers or just stock. I did not hear of them being given away but I do know they did sell for a very low price at the warehouse. They were not a big seller because they are essentially useless as a tool kit. They sell better tools in Toys Are Us.
David Teitelbaum

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Originally Posted by DeloreanJoshQ

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-Another interpretation of the concourse manual was made that the tool kit is worth 3.25 points if completely missing and if you had the pouch but were missing any of each of the 5 tools inside they were worth .5 point each...(i.e. the tool pouch is worth .75 point)

Does anyone who has competed in concourse have the correct answer?

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Josh Q

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I cleaned, prepped, and showed Ken Koncelik's concourse car at DCS '08 for him because he was too busy to do so. I can tell you that his car did indeed have a pristine toolkit with all the components inside, I opened it up and laid it out in the trunk next to the unrolled jack kit and it was judged. I even recall the judges pulling the wrenches out to inspect that they were the correct "spanner" style wrenches with the right markings. All points were awarded for both the tool kit and jack kit.

I do not know however where he got the toolkit. His is the only one I've ever seen. Before then I never even knew they existed. His car is an 83 so from the sounds of it, his car should never made it to the customer's hands with the toolkit. Not sure if it makes a difference or not but the car was purchased by Ken from Charlie DeLorean at his Cadillac dealership in the 90's. Perhaps a combination of it being Charlie DeLorean's and him owning the dealership where the car was sold and owned influenced whether or not the car had a toolkit.

No tool kit. VIN 7075.

2075 has no too kit...only a jack kit & 2 screwdrivers that appear to have been added by a PO. BTW, my jack looks to have been used at least once by the scrapes in the bottom of the frame. Apparently this is not like current scissor jacks as the 1 leg of the base just drags along the ground :shocked:

Attachment 7827

Info on 6513's toolkit has already been supplied.
However now that some pictures turn up, I can see how it should have been.

My jack has both the long handle and the lug nut tool.
The jack looks like it barely survided WWII, no more paint visible.
I've made a bag for it so it's a bit more protected and eventual rattle is deadend.

Josh I really do not appreciate you bringing my name up in this debate that you have seemingly endless time to engage in on multiple platforms. I work 14 hours a day, and not in a cubicle or office where I can also engage in endless debate with you from work as well, nor do I have time to answer all of your questions nor find them in every venue that you have posted them in. I just do not have that kind of free time, nor do I want to spend the limited free time I have debating with you or searching every platform that you've engaged this debate on to provide answer.

The concept you really seem to fail to grasp and what sparked this debate, is my (and others) complaint that the Tool Kit is required under Millennium Concours rules written by James Espey. The rules are not Vin specific it is required of all Vins without exception. Though it is common knowledge that very few (if any) *apparently some did as Dave Swingle has inspected far more DeLoreans then I've ever had access to and I would not debate his remarkable knowledge of these cars* had the kit to begin with. I could be mistaken on the costs DMCH sold the item as as it is $0.00 on their site now if it's even listed. I do not know the cost descrepency between what the Kits sold for at Kapac in comparison to DMCH, if they where listed for sale by Kapac at all. There where many items that Kapac had that DMCH found by surprise. I never had knowledge of the kits when I owned my 1st DeLorean from 92-96, they where not listed in catalogs that I had at the time. These became hot items to Concour competitors after their inclusion into the above mention DeLorean Millennium Concours rule book and they had to be in the cars or the owner would be subject to points deductions.

If they where sold at even $75 that could be at a considerable premium. The kits left a lot to be desired in quality. My contention the requirement that these be present in Concours cars was a sales scheme devised by DMCH and executed by James Espey by authoring the Concours Manual to require them to move these low demand kits at a premium.

Josh my friend what you have done is fail to see the forest from the trees by nitpicking the details like exact costs, quanitys and interpretations on point deductions, and ignoring the broader issue of a small specific example of the folks at DMCH abusing their power and trust by manipulating the DeLorean World coming up with schemes to squeeze out a little more profit from Concours competitors on a no to low demand item like this deleted tool kits, by literally writing the book on them.

Here is a link to an eBay auction I wrote a commentary about on Facebook that spawned this waste of time debate in the first place.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELOREAN-FAC...item43ac71eaab

Also the concept of DMCH sitting on inventory that it will not sell is not out of left field. There are plenty of items in DMCH's inventory that is not publicly listed for sale at any price, either set or not. For the most part they will only publicly sell what is listed on the website. That does not 100% encompass or reflect their complete inventory.

Tim,

Originally, I thought this was a friendly debate, but I was mistaken....

I put the poll up here because you stated as fact that no Deloreans arrived to customers with tool kits(hence they should not count at concourse), so I wanted to find out from actual owners, not rumors or "reliable sources", what better place than DMCTalk? I also posed two different viewpoints to each argument to find the correct answer to each one, which I received.

You are inaccurate on your facts, this is why I called you on them.
-You were unable to provide proof of the cost of toolkits but claimed they were $150 and at a "premium". I checked and found the actual answer from more than one DMC business owner was "$71.21 in 1993 @KAPAK, and last price was $74.77 at DMCH" , which I will accept as fact. You have since retracted your original statement.
-You said 5.75 point deduction on the concourse car without a toolkit and are incorrect. I checked and also asked a concourse judge and the correct answer is 3.25.
You did your math incorrectly and/or you jumped to conclusions, "almost 6 points!".
-You said there were thousands of toolkits left over and stockpiled. I asked a DMC owner and the answer was actually less than 100 when KAPAK sold the inventory to DMCH. You need to cross-check your "reliable source" better. You have since backed up and generalized your statement.

The point I am making is that you exaggerate your claims and are attacking Delorean people and businesses who support our community which I see as unfair and unacceptable.

You are hypocritical though because you still buy parts from DMC (that you accuse of price-gouging) and have stated surprise that they haven't "blacklisted" you.
You also are hypocritical because you falsely advertise and sight your claims just as you have accused DMC doing of their Deloreans.
- a few recent examples include "New vs. Remanufactured Deloreans", "Crash Testing/Safety of New Fiberglass Underbodies" and now "Premium Price Tool Kits"

We all love Deloreans and sharing our experiences and knowledge with others and for the most part it is positive and constructive. However, when you behave negatively with the intent to persuade others in your crusade it is reflected back to you.

I may be speaking only for myself, but I have grown tired of you continually and routinely bashing DMC/James Espey and your negative attitude. You accused me of "trolling" on facebook, threatened to de-friend me, and questioned whether I worked for DMC, so I left you alone to say whatever you want there going forward.

The next time you attempt to assasinate someone's character, job, or a company that supports our hobby do your homework first and be truthful so you don't lose credit and trust from others like me. It would also help to seek resolution with those you have disagreements with if you want to continue to do business with them instead of complaining continuously which hasn't resolved any differences.

Josh Q

The whole concept of allowing a Vendor to promote the Concours results in a basic conflict of interest. Most car Marques have clubs and organizations that run and promote the concours to avoid this. That being said, better to have DMCH do it than no one. Requiring a tool kit (even if it was not originally delivered with the car) is not all that bad considering how other cars are judged and other concours are run by other car clubs. There are many examples of things being judged that may or may not have been original to the car. Like accessories such as the luggage rack, ski rack, or floor mats. If this is going to morph into a concours discussion the heading of the thread should be changed. My argument is that there should be a bonus category for things that were available but not standard like seat covers, tool kits, side stripes, racks, etc. It is done that way in some other car clubs where you can theoretically earn more than 100 points but it is not done that way by all car clubs. Just the fact that DMCH is promoting the concours is a way for them to sell ALL KINDS of parts so an entrant can improve the car to gain the most points possible. For example if you have a door seal with a very minor tear and you want a "perfect" car you have to buy a new door seal even if you really wouldn't otherwise. IMHO DMCH is playing the "Benevolent Dictator" which is OK but they may not have good intentions forever. Unless local clubs get together to actually RUN the concours you really can't blame DMCH for wanting to do it. It promotes the Marque and sets standards and that sets values. Deloreans offered for sale are always judged against the value of a "perfect" car and then adjusted according to condition of each particular car offered for sale. Not having a tool kit (or any other part originally offered) reduces the value of the car against the "perfect" car. Like it or not that is the way the Classic Car market operates.
David Teitelbaum

Josh you have really blown this out of proportion and twisted my words. It is OK for one to disagree or agree to disagree.

I am upset with you because I come home from work (14 hours) to find multiple posts to my facebook by you about this subject in response to a commentary about an eBay auction in which I had made which was stated to the best of my knowledge as I understand it on my private facebook page. You then follow up with repeated impossible to answer questions that seem to be of interest only to you. I then express my displeasure with your trolling of my facebook with all these impossible questions that no one can answer for you, and when I do, I do it out of anger and frustration, if you would have looked before you blocked me you would see that long winded rant (that I spent 45 minutes writing in the limited time I had after work that I could have spent with my wife) that was directed toward you was removed within 20 minutes of being put up, as I also removed the rest of your pestering of me on the subject as well as any answers made by me that where directed toward you.

You then come onto DMCTalk and speak my side of the argument for me and naming me by name when doing so. You spoke for me (with exaggeration and out of context I might add) without my consent and I have a real problem with that.

I am sorry that my disagreement on the way DMCH promotes it's high end products and confuses the public into thinking time and time again that new DeLoreans are being built bothers you. My opinion is just one, and is no more powerful then any other. As an American within reason I do not feel that freedom of information is a problem. I also think it is relatively unreasonable of you to scrutinize and misrepresent my statements as I have with your own added take on them due to my lack of stature in the DeLorean community. I can only take that as a unwarranted personal attack and just like what you were doing on my facebook earlier you are just trolling to troll. If I disagree with what one person (or more) is saying I can accept that and move on without making it personal. I also take into account what I am hearing and who I am hearing it from and put it into perspective. Frankly if James Espey was able to do this last August we likely wouldn't be discussing this now.

Also to add to that if Stephen Wynne was able to apologize for (not just acknowledge and privately correct) the actions of his employee we wouldn't likely be having this discussion now, as I wouldn't feel so bitterly about the way I was publicly treated by the Vice President of DeLorean Motor Company (Houston) someone with far more stature and in a much larger position of power when relation to myself. I am one customer, James is the VP of the company. Do you get it?

DMCH is a very arrogant company that takes for granted it's customer base due to it's unique position in the market. It whores us (it's customer base) to do whatever it can to attract a few new elite customers and I find that disgusting and I resent them for it. A prime example of them taking their customer base for granted is the whole binnacle fiasco.

I wont apologize for it, and I resent your exaggerated public attack because you the almighty Josh Quellhorst happens to disagree. Who are you Josh? If you don't like what I have to say click ignore. Your having delusions of grandeur my "friend".

I'm also furious with you that you decide that you need to air this laundry out publicly. Be a man about it and at least pick up the phone if you have a disagreement with a friend, I just talked to you about this subject not two days ago over the phone and you didn't express any of this. You sure can talk the talk, why can't you walk the walk?


Note to moderator, Josh has made this personnel and public so please leave it as is, the way Josh wants it, for all to see.

My editing time expired before I was able to correct my posts. This

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I am sorry that my disagreement on the way DMCH promotes it's high end products and confuses the public into thinking time and time again that new DeLoreans are being built bothers you. My opinion is just one, and is no more powerful then any other. As an American within reason I do not feel that freedom of information is a problem. I also think it is relatively unreasonable of you to scrutinize and misrepresent my statements as I have with your own added take on them due to my lack of stature in the DeLorean community. I can only take that as a unwarranted personal attack and just like what you were doing on my facebook earlier you are just trolling to troll. If I disagree with what one person (or more) is saying I can accept that and move on without making it personal. I also take into account what I am hearing and who I am hearing it from and put it into perspective. Frankly if James Espey was able to do this last August we likely wouldn't be discussing this now.

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Is supposed to say this

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I am sorry that my disagreement on the way DMCH promotes it's high end products and confuses the public into thinking time and time again that new DeLoreans are being built bothers you. My opinion is just one, and is no more powerful then any other. As an American within reason I do not feel that freedom of information is a problem. I also think it is relatively unreasonable of you to scrutinize and misrepresent my statements with your own added take on them due to my lack of stature in the DeLorean community. I can only take that as a unwarranted personal attack and just like what you were doing on my facebook earlier you are just trolling to troll. If I disagree with what one person (or more) is saying I can accept that and move on without making it personal. I also take into account what I am hearing and who I am hearing it from and put it into perspective. Frankly if James Espey was able to do this last August we likely wouldn't be discussing this now.

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Josh in short you had no right to name me, then speak for me here without my knowledge or consent, then to follow that your Outing, twisting, misquoting and just plain exaggerating personal conversations. This is the root of my problem with you other then your expanding hat size.

The facebook stuff is now secondary to this much much larger problem.

Also before moving on I will clarify my position on Josh's claims

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I put the poll up here because you stated as fact that no Deloreans arrived to customers with tool kits(hence they should not count at concourse), so I wanted to find out from actual owners, not rumors or "reliable sources", what better place than DMCTalk? I also posed two different viewpoints to each argument to find the correct answer to each one, which I received.

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My problems is not that you try to satisfy your curiosity about the subject, my problem is your naming my name and your interpretation of my point of view as gospel, also doing so without my knowledge or consent. This was posted to a Facebook page that is and was set to private, not a news article written by a journalist. Your fact checking me and putting me under scrutiny like I am running for president, whic last I checked I am not running for any public office.

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You are inaccurate on your facts, this is why I called you on them.
-You were unable to provide proof of the cost of toolkits but claimed they were $150 and at a "premium". I checked and found the actual answer from more than one DMC business owner was "$71.21 in 1993 @KAPAK, and last price was $74.77 at DMCH" , which I will accept as fact. You have since retracted your original statement.
-You said 5.75 point deduction on the concourse car without a toolkit and are incorrect. I checked and also asked a concourse judge and the correct answer is 3.25.
You did your math incorrectly and/or you jumped to conclusions, "almost 6 points!".
-You said there were thousands of toolkits left over and stockpiled. I asked a DMC owner and the answer was actually less than 100 when KAPAK sold the inventory to DMCH. You need to cross-check your "reliable source" better. You have since backed up and generalized your statement.

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Again who are you Josh to put any of my statements under such scrutiny. Again I am not running for elected office. You are out of line, it would have been far more polite and friend like to offer your corrections to any information I had in error privately. I would have been interested as a friend with a common hoby to hear what you have to say. Not make a spectical of it on DMCTalk and naming me and speaking for me without my knowledge and consent and embarrassing me.

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The point I am making is that you exaggerate your claims and are attacking Delorean people and businesses who support our community which I see as unfair and unacceptable.

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If you don't like what I say ignore it, my statements about the Tool Kits and my opinions about their inclussion in the Concours manual is my criticism of a public character in the DeLorean world as he is the author of the manual as well as the Vice President of DMCH. You putting my personal statements on a private page up on a public message board is what is unfair and unacceptable.

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You are hypocritical though because you still buy parts from DMC (that you accuse of price-gouging) and have stated surprise that they haven't "blacklisted" you.
You also are hypocritical because you falsely advertise and sight your claims just as you have accused DMC doing of their Deloreans.

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I do not buy parts that I have accused them or price gouging. Infact I don't know if I have accused them of price gouging other then maybe the EV. But what do I know, it costs the same as similar Electric Cars. I accused them as acting like opportunists by taking advantage of James position writing the Concours manual.

I'd be surprised I haven't been blacklisted, based upon DMCH's reaction to my and others criticism, Not that I'd reasonably expect them to. They have reacted enough to take me off of their mailing list though.

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We all love Deloreans and sharing our experiences and knowledge with others and for the most part it is positive and constructive. However, when you behave negatively with the intent to persuade others in your crusade it is reflected back to you.

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I'm not trying to persuade anyone Josh, just stating my opinion. Last time I checked that's still legal. It is up to the individual reader to form their own opinion. And trust me everyone has one.

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I may be speaking only for myself, but I have grown tired of you continually and routinely bashing DMC/James Espey and your negative attitude. You accused me of "trolling" on facebook, threatened to de-friend me, and questioned whether I worked for DMC, so I left you alone to say whatever you want there going forward.

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That's your problem Josh, if you don't like what I have to say don't read it or listen to it.

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The next time you attempt to assasinate someone's character, job, or a company that supports our hobby do your homework first and be truthful so you don't lose credit and trust from others like me. It would also help to seek resolution with those you have disagreements with if you want to continue to do business with them instead of complaining continuously which hasn't resolved any differences.

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No one else but you takes what I say so seriously or scrutinizes it so thoroughly. Again I'm not running for president or other public office.

I have nothing more to say about the matter other then I apologize to those that don't want to read Josh and I having to air out some dirty laundry so publicly, but again that wasn't my choice. Was it Josh?

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Originally Posted by DeloreanJoshQ

if you competed in Delorean Concourse you had to have this tool kit or you would lose 5.75 points (3.25 points plus .5 point for each of the 5 tools) off of the 100 point checklist.

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OH MY GOD!!!!! My life has no meaning now. :cry:

Farrar

*Note to moderators, I'd like to address the original post here a little bit after some personal reflection about Josh's actions as far as the original post and his continued posts in this thread as a whole and put some more perspective in this from my point of view, Josh certainly has made his. My previous post condensed into #32 was written in an anger stewed rage after Josh literally betrayed my trust (this man pretended to be my friend) and is not well balanced, I literally was just home from working 14 hours in a high stress job and I was mad as hell after reading his nonsense in post #29. I feel what is written below is more balanced and accurately communicates my point of view on the broader subject written with a clear head with out dwelling on the issue of Josh speaking on my behalf behind my back without me consent and his convenient twists of some of my words and playing himself up to DMCH.

Anyhow here goes...

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Originally Posted by DeloreanJoshQ

Tim Dufrense and I are debating this question:

Poll: Did your Delorean Have a Tool Kit In It When You Purchased It? What VIN?

-Yes, it came with a tool kit when I bought it (tool kit came with car originally or previous owner purchased tool kit seperately and left it with the car)
-No, there is no tool kit in the jack storage area
-I purchased a tool kit separately from the car (please tell us approximately when you bought the tool kit and how much you paid for it)

Also, I am looking for documentation or verification by those of you who purchased tool kits. I am told by one source they were selling from DMCH for $150 a kit, and another source said they were selling for $70-$75 a kit.

Can any of you verify this? I would like the correct answer....

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There was no debate about it Josh, I made a comment about an eBay auction on my facebook page. The point of my comment was primarily directed toward the points deduction for Concours cars not having this kit deemed by James Espey when in fact very few cars (evidently, I honestly believed none did) came with them. In other instances in the Councours manual there is a vin cut off for things that came in some (early) cars that where not carried over. This is not the case with the tool kit. At the time the manual was written DMCH sold the kits exclusively.

You are flat out lying about debating anything with me, you filled my facebook page with impossible questions that no one could answer unless they had a stack of catalogs in front of them, had access to inventory records at Kapac, DMC, and DMCH, and where actually employed by DeLorean back in 1981-82. I answered your questions to the best of my ability and to my knowledge without any clue that you were setting me up for public ridicule over here. You never offered your side of the debate until you came here to throw me under the bus without my knowledge.

My information was second hand when it comes to pricing, and that was all you were hung up on. That and point deductions that we interpret differently. You missed the entire point about James abusing his power at DMCH by writing the Concours manual to manipulate sales of an item no one wanted but DMCH was the sole stock holder of and since sold out of (according to their website).

Honestly Josh I just tried to give you an answer. Because I really don't care about the tool kit other then Mr Espey's bullshit manipulation of the Concours manual as it applies to it. It might not have been well researched, but let's be honest that is what you were counting on wasn't it?

I am not trying to tear down DMCH, I'm incapable of doing that. They have a parts monopoly on NOS parts, not to mention their brand and ability to advertise with it (I do question if they legally own it) if anyone's goal is to tear DMCH down it is futile. The only entity that can tear DMCH down is DMCH, and with some of their business decisions it wouldn't surprise me at all if they eventually succeed in that. In normal business circumstances I would not do business with DMCH (if I had a choice) due to my disagreement with their advertising practices as it pertains to "New-Build" cars and the Vice President of the companies internet bullying of me for speaking my mind on the subject. But they have me in a situation that I am forced to do business because there is no alternative in some cases. I do business indirect whenever possible and hold my nose when I have no other choice but to do business with them directly. If I had an alternative to DMCH that had NOS parts I'd go with that before I contributed any further to James Espey's paycheck. In reality with my public criticism All I'm trying to do is apply pressure on them to keep them honest, and I will say that in recent interviews Stephen Wynne has been very careful with his wording calling DeLoreans that DMCH has restored as re-manufactured cars in place of "New Builds" since the EV press hoopla. I'd like to think that myself and a few other people here that annoy you (that you do not have the courage to confront or have the common sense to just ignore) had something to do with that.

In closing I am disappointed Josh that you were not man enough to return my phone call yesterday. You take care of those many faces "friend".


To the moderators and fellow forum members my apologies again, I now return you to your regular scheduled programming. I don't have anything else to add or more importantly any more time to waste on Mr Quellhorst.

:headscratch:...so, did it come with a tool kit or not? :confused2:

I pretty much have a whole garage full of tools in my Delorean at all times. Does that count?? :biggrin: