Question about operating, repair and maintenance costs

Greetings all!

I am a student at Cal Poly Pomona. For my asset allocation class, we are charged with the task of analyzing the financial implications of purchasing, owning and maintaining a car. It would have been easy enough for me to analyze the ownership of my own vehicle (a 2006 Toyota Corolla with 1.8 Liters of fury under the hood), but I wanted to use the presentation to do something really special. I want to use that time to share with the class one of the most awesome cars to ever take to the streets. I want to share with them the DMC-12 DeLorean from the early eighties. I have, however, run into a bit of a "roadblock" (pun intended). It seems that there is very little information available on the required recurring costs on this, or pretty much any other classic car for that matter. Current values are available, as well as retail costs of the cars from when they were new, but there is a very large gap in between. I am hoping to find someone among what I am sure is a wonderful community of passionate owners who will be willing to take some time to share their experiences with me, and my class by proxy. I am interested to know the actual costs associated with owning one of these icons from the early eighties until now.

I understand that time is valuable, but virtually any input on this topic from this community will really help me go the "extra mile" (pun intended again... sorry) on this project and share what I believe is a very important piece of automotive history with my classmates.

Specifically I am trying to attach credible numbers to things like:
• Unplanned major repairs (engine work, transmission replacement, suspension overhaul etc.)
• Routine maintenance (oil changes, belt / hose replacement, brake servicing)
• Collision repair (what did it take to get the car back up and running after a collision)
• Insurance cost
• Cosmetic maintenance (they don’t make cars from unfinished stainless anymore so I have no idea what it takes to keep these things beautiful)

For any of these a ballpark cost number would suffice, but would be best if that estimate was grounded in experience. In addition to the cost estimate, a mileage and year estimate would be greatly appreciated as it would help me place the incident at a point in the vehicles life, and at a point in history economically (so I can account for inflation and all that).

For this assignment, it is required that we do a detailed financial analysis, but the instructor has made it clear that the numbers cannot be simply made up by us students. For this reason I am appealing to actual owners of these legends to share their experiences if they can recall what any of these things cost. This way in the assignment, I have something to point to that says “This is where this number came from”.

Thanks in advance for your help!

One thing you've got to understand is that these numbers are going to vary GREATLY because of two reasons that have everything to do with one another: there weren't many of these cars made and every owner uses their car for different things. Some people are restoring them, others have already finished restoring them and use the car to go to a car show every so often and only take it out once in a while, and others use their DeLorean as a daily driver. Some of the cars are in really rough shape and need constant influxes of cash, others are in really great shape and are inexpensive to maintain. It's going to be hard to draw an average set of numbers and say that it applies to all owners because there just isn't a large enough sample size.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr. Glitch

• Unplanned major repairs (engine work, transmission replacement, suspension overhaul etc.)
• Routine maintenance (oil changes, belt / hose replacement, brake servicing)
• Collision repair (what did it take to get the car back up and running after a collision)
• Insurance cost
• Cosmetic maintenance (they don’t make cars from unfinished stainless anymore so I have no idea what it takes to keep these things beautiful)

---

1. Unplanned major repairs: About the same as any other car, really. Maybe a little higher due to the rarity of the cars, but aside from being mounted backwards a transmission is a transmission.
2. Routine maintenance: Again, same as any other car. Aside from the oil filters (which are priced similarly to others out there), the parts and the work are standard.
3. Collision repair: Depends on where you get hit! :D The difference in sustaining damage between the front-right quarter panel and the front-left quarter panel is easily several thousand dollars, solely because of parts availability.
4. Cosmetic maintenance: CHEAP. Paint needs to be babied, but raw stainless is stupid easy to maintain. Get a scratch? Sand it out with a scotch-brite pad. Gunk on the body? Wipe it off with gasoline.

To get more detailed numbers, you're really going to have to ask more detailed questions. If you go to http://store.delorean.com you can get exact pricing on whatever physical parts are available. Beyond that, the numbers will be either comparable to other cars, or completely hypothetical based on the situation.

Do you have any flexibility in your assignment to make it a "compare and contrast" type of exercise?

We fairly frequently get asked "could I buy a DeLorean for use as a daily driver" and it may be a interesting topic if you could generate a typical, say, years usage for a daily driver in your state, for your usual activities, using your 06 Corolla, and then an 81 deLorean.

As Chris says, every owner here is different, so it may be a more meaningful exercise for you if we use a specific test case.

The insurance figure, therefore would be obtainable by you based on your age, history etc. Fuel consumption is easy to compute, and if you give us your annual mileage, we could recommend the maintenance that would be required, and then throw in a random fault (not to say the cars are un-reliable, but they are 30+ years old).

In return, we would love to have a copy of your report (anonymous of course) that we could use for future discussions.

Just to add to what Chris said... a thought on insurance:

I've insured my car two different ways over the years I have had it. One was insuring it as a daily driver, just like I would a regular four door sedan or pickup truck. I found this to be pretty close to what my regular car was in terms of dollar premiums. If you are insuring your second car on the policy, you likely will get a discount too. If you're under 25, this number is higher, just like it would be if you were insuring a Mustang at that age.

The second option is insure it as a classic. There can be limitations, such as how you're not supposed to drive it to work. This isn't a problem for many of us as the last thing I'm doing is parking my D at the lot at work! Classic car insurance often bases their premiums on the appraised value. It goes up or down by the 1,000s that your appraisal is at. For example, if you appraise your car at $30,000, then your premium for the year might be around $300. Just to give you an idea anyway.

Some other items you might add to your DeLorean maintenance list would be an AAA/CAA membership. It's more or less an extra $100/year insurance policy just in case your car won't start at the end of a cruise night or something.

Many owners do their own work too. This can make a big difference on the cost of ownership if you invest your own time versus $100/hour at a shop. And don't forget that many owners do not have a DMC franchise or vendor in the same town/city in which they live. This means you need other options to solve problems whether it be your own how-to abilities, your local club owners around you, or this forum and the like. When you need parts, much of that can be shipped within a day or two, but this is another factor which could make daily driver ownership challenging. If you have a second car as backup, great, otherwise you might be looking at rental cars or bus passes until it's fixed.

D ownership can also include investing in tools and other odds and ends. This is never a bad idea to have the right stuff in your garage, but good tools aren't cheap. Neither is all the BTTF crap many of us buy to satisfy the urge. A $250 flux capacitor is the gateway prop sometimes. Once you get that, look out... there could be more on the way :)

You should have coffee with an owner and look over his receipts. Then write it up and go have a beer.

Don't forget about the all-important *preventative* maintenance category. This is where the lion's share of the expenses have been on my car. I bought it as a solid running driver, but because I never want to be stuck on the side of the road with it I have put thousands into preventative maintenance (system rebuilds/upgrades/refreshes.) These expenses would fall under neither routine maintenance like an oil change, nor emergency repair since no unexpected failure actually occurred.

Just from my own personal experience with owning a Delorean for a year and a half, here's what I can share with you. First off, there is a price range for these cars, and how much you spend on a Delorean can help determine what condition you will find it in (usually).

$0-10K: A wrecked POS. Probably doesn't start, probably needs a new engine, body panels, interior. Could also have frame rot. It's probably been stored in a barn or garage for years, or even worse, outdoors. Cars bought in this price range are often used as "organ donors" for other Deloreans, although someone with a lot of time and money could possibly restore it.

$10K-15K: Still in rough shape, although you can often find one that actually starts up and drives in this range. You're still looking at a new fuel system, cooling system, electrical nightmare, etc. Again, lots of long-term storage vehicles in this range, but they are definitely restorable.

$15K-20K: This is the range I purchased my car in. Many Deloreans can be found here, and most of them run well enough. You're definitely still looking at some mildly expensive repair bills to get the car to 100%. See below for more info.

$20K-25K: Currently this is the sweet spot that you'll find most Deloreans listing for online. A $25K Delorean should ideally need almost no repairs or upgrades upon purchase.

$25K +: Show-car worthy models with low miles, often fully refurbished by DMCH or another vendor.

FOR ME, PERSONALLY...I've spent around $1300 in maintenance costs on my Delorean since I bought it in April 2012. It has around 17,500 miles. I've replaced both drive belts, all the old fuses/relays, new front shocks, tie rods, oil pressure sensor, shift linkages, trailing arm bolts, AC lines/o-rings, and much more. All of this work was done by me, except for the AC work which I took to Rad Air and got ripped off for ($400!). An oil change is about the same cost as a normal car, if you do it yourself.

Many parts for the Delorean are surprisingly inexpensive, but there are also parts that are insanely pricey (usually due to scarcity).

First of all, thank you all so much for your replies! It is always amazing to see a community of passionate people come together to share their love for something with an outsider.

For the purpose of this assignment, our group is going to hypothetically buy a new DeLorean in either 1981 or '82. We are then going to go through the "financial life" of the car as a light duty daily driver from then until now (10,000 miles per year or less). This cash flow will then be analyzed by a few different methods. Future Worth Analysis will tell us what the car would be "worth" today, Present Worth Analysis will show its "worth" when new. Equivalent Uniform Annual Cost analysis will show how much ownership would cost per year and Internal Rate Of Return analysis will show how "good" of a financial investment the car was over the 30-some-ought years. These analyses will be compared with those of another Film/Tv/General Automotive icon, The 1982 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am (most notably from the tv series Knight Rider). It is important to note that all these "worths" are from the point of view of profit. So PW analysis would show how much you should pay in 1980-whatever to break even in 2013 given all the required expenditures along the way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SamHill

You should have coffee with an owner and look over his receipts. Then write it up and go have a beer.

---

It is funny you should mention that SamHill, because that is more-or-less exactly why I am here. I am trying to basically model the life of an actual car (or composite life of a few cars put together), so I can have a grounded, cite-able reference as to where the incidentals may crop up and how much it would be to make them go away (since, as I said, I am not allowed to just make this stuff up).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jawn101

Don't forget about the all-important *preventative* maintenance category. This is where the lion's share of the expenses have been on my car. I bought it as a solid running driver, but because I never want to be stuck on the side of the road with it I have put thousands into preventative maintenance (system rebuilds/upgrades/refreshes.) These expenses would fall under neither routine maintenance like an oil change, nor emergency repair since no unexpected failure actually occurred.

---

That is a good point jawn101. These are the sorts of things that I would have no idea how to predict. Hence my presence here.

Ideally I would like to find someone who would be willing to go through some of the unpredictable expenses of owning their particular car and about when they were incurred. Things like oil changes and other routine maintenance are pretty easy to predict , so I have that part well covered. However, in my own automotive experience it seems that repairs, preventive maintenance, insurance cost, and anything collision related are completely random, both inasmuch as cost and timing are concerned. To account for this, I am hoping to tap in to the greatest random number generator to ever exist, real life. For instance, I would never have been able to predict that my serpentine belt tension arm on my Corolla would snap off one day earlier this year on the way to school with about 80k miles on the car. I also would not have been able to predict that it would cost me about $200 to repair.

Have a look at this thread...all broken down for you as well.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?30...ve)-a-Delorean

I should note that I am in my 4th year of ownership and last year was almost zero repair costs and minimal maintainence costs. I noticed the waterpump seeping a tiny bit so I nipped it before driving season and early this year had it replaced. While I was at it did a 15k service(coolant/brake fluid change, plugs, oil, and a few other things) I should update with the receipt totals but I believe it was right under $1,000.00 parts and labor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr. Glitch

For the purpose of this assignment, our group is going to hypothetically buy a new DeLorean in either 1981 or '82. We are then going to go through the "financial life" of the car as a light duty daily driver from then until now (10,000 miles per year or less). This cash flow will then be analyzed by a few different methods. Future Worth Analysis will tell us what the car would be "worth" today, Present Worth Analysis will show its "worth" when new. Equivalent Uniform Annual Cost analysis will show how much ownership would cost per year and Internal Rate Of Return analysis will show how "good" of a financial investment the car was over the 30-some-ought years. These analyses will be compared with those of another Film/Tv/General Automotive icon, The 1982 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am (most notably from the tv series Knight Rider). It is important to note that all these "worths" are from the point of view of profit. So PW analysis would show how much you should pay in 1980-whatever to break even in 2013 given all the required expenditures along the way.

---

Not long ago I decided to scribble down some of my favorite all time cars. I used internet resources to find their MSRP to use for what the car went for new on average. I then used an inflation calculator like this one: http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm to find out what that translated to this year. Then I took current prices low, middle, high and used the middle one as the average. From that I calculated total gain in % and $. I used Excel to make it easy.

Attachment 19382

What I didn't take into account were things like mileage and cost of ownership (maintenance, repairs, etc.). I would say that for your project, 10,000 miles per year for a 31-32 year old car is going to be on the very high side of our current DeLorean community. That would put the car at 310,000 to 320,000 miles. I can say that having that many miles on one of these cars would certainly lend itself to significant upkeep and repair costs.

I'm not sure what the constraints of your project are but I would rework the numbers to use this car not as a daily driver from date of purchase in 1981-82 but rather as a Sunday driver where you have 1,500 to 2,000 miles a year or so that you're putting on it. That's where *most* of the owner's cars are on their odometer, based-off what I've seen.

In the end, the DeLorean is not an "Investment" car, yet. In fact as you can tell from my sheet, if you bought one new in 1981 for $27,500 that would be approx $77,604 today. And the middle price of these cars today is just under $30k, so you're looking at a $47,854 hit not including cost of ownership. A better bet would be a Mercedes 300SL Gullwing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr. Glitch

...For the purpose of this assignment, our group is going to hypothetically buy a new DeLorean in either 1981 or '82. We are then going to go through the "financial life" of the car as a light duty daily driver from then until now (10,000 miles per year or less)...

---

for a 30+ year cost analysis, youll probably get the most valuable information from those who are original owners. while there is the standard bell curve distribution for the years of ownership, i would say the majority of owners on this forum are probably between 5-10 years. of course, there are also those who are just getting started and those who have been in it for the long haul.

one cause of this distribution is the advent of the internet. there is roughly a 15 year gap from when DMC went into receivership to when DeLorean parts & information started becoming available on the internet in the mid to late '90s. while some owners did maintain their vehicles through this "dark age," thousands of DeLoreans were tucked away and forgotten. this is why active original owners are rather scarce.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dvonk

for a 30+ year cost analysis, youll probably get the most valuable information from those who are original owners. while there is the standard bell curve distribution for the years of ownership, i would say the majority of owners on this forum are probably between 5-10 years. of course, there are also those who are just getting started and those who have been in it for the long haul.

one cause of this distribution is the advent of the internet. there is roughly a 15 year gap from when DMC went into receivership to when DeLorean parts & information started becoming available on the internet in the mid to late '90s. while some owners did maintain their vehicles through this "dark age," thousands of DeLoreans were tucked away and forgotten. this is why active original owners are rather scarce.

---

Not to derail, but I would love to read any stories and thoughts original owners have about the "dark years". Seriously, was PJ Grady and Ed B. The only game in town in 1987?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Michael

Not to derail, but I would love to read any stories and thoughts original owners have about the "dark years". Seriously, was PJ Grady and Ed B. The only game in town in 1987?

---

+1 on this.