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Thread: Megasquirt question for Eagle 3.0 conversion

  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Megasquirt question for Eagle 3.0 conversion

    Hi all,

    I found a 3.0 engine that I am waiting for delivery on and I had a question that I could not find on the forums. I see that most of the Eagle 3.0 engine swaps are using the MS2 3.57, is there any reason not to use the MS2 3.0? The only differences I found is that the 3.57 is surface mount for easier mass production and the 3.0 is through hole components. I can save some money purchasing the MS2 3.0 kit and assemble it myself if it will work out for the engine swap.

    Also, there are two MS2 3.0 kits, one has the MapDaddy4 upgrade. I don't believe that this is needed for the Eagle 3.0 engine swap, but, I just wanted to verify.

    Thank you!

  2. #2
    '82 T3 FABombjoy's Avatar
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    Functionally the PCB v3 and v3.57 are basically the same.

    You would only need the mapdaddy4 kit if you were planning on 45psi boost. Otherwise you'll just lose resolution in your actual operating range.

    You might want to consider Megasquirt 3 vs 2. v3 has nice benefits over 2 and will likely see the lions share of continued development.
    If you want to stick with v2, I have an unused v2 aluminum case I can sell you
    Luke S :: 10270 :: 82 Grey 5-Speed :: Single Watercooled T3 .60/.48 :: Borla Exhaust :: MSD Ignition :: MS3X Fully SFI Odd-fire EFI :: DevilsOwn Methanol Injection

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by FABombjoy View Post
    Functionally the PCB v3 and v3.57 are basically the same.

    You would only need the mapdaddy4 kit if you were planning on 45psi boost. Otherwise you'll just lose resolution in your actual operating range.

    You might want to consider Megasquirt 3 vs 2. v3 has nice benefits over 2 and will likely see the lions share of continued development.
    If you want to stick with v2, I have an unused v2 aluminum case I can sell you
    What does the v3 offer over the v2 when using it on the Eagle 3.0 engine?

  4. #4
    '82 T3 FABombjoy's Avatar
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    It's a bit more future proof in terms of upgrades. I like the SD card logging and real USB connection. You can burn changes while driving without a stumble. I use the MS3+X module for radiator fan, AC control, boost control, water injections, and plan to add a radiator fan PWM driver and maybe PWM fuel pump control. Another owner here is running coil-near-plug ignition. The major options are listed on the product page:

    https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...hterboard-kit/

    If you want an ECU that just runs a base 3.0 engine MS2 is fine.
    MS3 would let you skip EDIS. But I don't know if anyone has done MS3/Eagle so you'd be trainblazing just a little.
    Luke S :: 10270 :: 82 Grey 5-Speed :: Single Watercooled T3 .60/.48 :: Borla Exhaust :: MSD Ignition :: MS3X Fully SFI Odd-fire EFI :: DevilsOwn Methanol Injection

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by FABombjoy View Post
    It's a bit more future proof in terms of upgrades. I like the SD card logging and real USB connection. You can burn changes while driving without a stumble. I use the MS3+X module for radiator fan, AC control, boost control, water injections, and plan to add a radiator fan PWM driver and maybe PWM fuel pump control. Another owner here is running coil-near-plug ignition. The major options are listed on the product page:

    https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...hterboard-kit/

    If you want an ECU that just runs a base 3.0 engine MS2 is fine.
    MS3 would let you skip EDIS. But I don't know if anyone has done MS3/Eagle so you'd be trainblazing just a little.
    Thanks! I am still in the planning and designing stages as of now so I haven't decided on which one to start with. But this was all very helpful!

  6. #6
    LS Swapper Josh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FABombjoy View Post
    It's a bit more future proof in terms of upgrades. I like the SD card logging and real USB connection. You can burn changes while driving without a stumble. I use the MS3+X module for radiator fan, AC control, boost control, water injections, and plan to add a radiator fan PWM driver and maybe PWM fuel pump control. Another owner here is running coil-near-plug ignition. The major options are listed on the product page:

    https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...hterboard-kit/

    If you want an ECU that just runs a base 3.0 engine MS2 is fine.
    MS3 would let you skip EDIS. But I don't know if anyone has done MS3/Eagle so you'd be trainblazing just a little.
    Luke and his pro-MS3 propaganda at it again!

    Supercharged 5.3L LS4 + Porsche 6spd
    [email protected]
    deloreanmidwest.com
    lsdelorean.com

  7. #7
    '82 T3 FABombjoy's Avatar
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    I like the future proofing. MS2 & Microsquirt work great if you want management + a few extra features. If an owner is a tech junky that wants the opportunity to implement some fancier things, MS3 is the way to go.

    I also don't like EDIS. "Here's your new & currently supported EFI & ignition management solution. All it needs to work is an obsolete junkyard-sourced black box"
    Luke S :: 10270 :: 82 Grey 5-Speed :: Single Watercooled T3 .60/.48 :: Borla Exhaust :: MSD Ignition :: MS3X Fully SFI Odd-fire EFI :: DevilsOwn Methanol Injection

  8. #8
    LS Swapper Josh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FABombjoy View Post
    I like the future proofing. MS2 & Microsquirt work great if you want management + a few extra features. If an owner is a tech junky that wants the opportunity to implement some fancier things, MS3 is the way to go.

    I also don't like EDIS. "Here's your new & currently supported EFI & ignition management solution. All it needs to work is an obsolete junkyard-sourced black box"
    I always place you on the far right of the bell curve in terms of electrical skill/talent and resultantly the need to tinker with things. So i understand the need for the overhead MS3 offers.

    But I view the average megasquirt user (especially in the delorean community) as someone who wants to setup their efi, initially tune it, then have something that just works. For this you dont need anything fancy.

    Who is wrong? probably neither of us

    Supercharged 5.3L LS4 + Porsche 6spd
    [email protected]
    deloreanmidwest.com
    lsdelorean.com

  9. #9
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    I always place you on the far right of the bell curve in terms of electrical skill/talent and resultantly the need to tinker with things. So i understand the need for the overhead MS3 offers.

    But I view the average megasquirt user (especially in the delorean community) as someone who wants to setup their efi, initially tune it, then have something that just works. For this you dont need anything fancy.

    Who is wrong? probably neither of us
    I’m an electronic tinkerer as well, but, I just want to install something, get it tuned and forget about it.

  10. #10
    '82 T3 FABombjoy's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

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    I think Josh and I both agree that whatever the solution, it would be nice if the MS2 and derivatives had just a couple more inputs and outputs.

    I like MS3 as the software has more options, not necessarily the fully loaded MS3X as it is probably overkill for most.

    Really my preference for the MS3 surrounds the hardware/software enabled by the faster CPU. It's new. It's hip. If you want to run AC control, there's a menu. If you want to run fan control, there's a menu. There's actually a lot of menus, for better or for worse, more than MS2.

    The versioning system is a bit ambiguous too:
    Megasquirt - currently supported
    Megasquirt PCB: v3.0. Hobby through-hole component version. Pretty much everybody uses this or a 3.57
    Megasquirt PCB: v3.57 is the surface mount version, virtually identical but not offered as a solder-together kit

    These are functionally identical. Both have the same clunky 37 pin connector which I think is not a great choice.

    CPUs - plug in to either of the above PCBs
    Megasquirt v2: 24MHz HCS12 CPU, serial only communication
    Megasquirt v3: 50Mhz MC9S12XEP100 CPU, native USB and SD card logging. Needs a bigger box though.
    Megasquirt v3 with MS3X: An add-on card for Megasquirt v3 that gives you a TON of inputs/outputs, individual injector drivers, individual coil drivers.

    Microsquirt
    Functionally similar to MS2, but in a proper enclosure and a real harness connector. Small, weatherproof.

    Microsquirt but repurposed as an IO-box?
    Getting weird in here isn't it? If you have an MS3 CPU, you can flash a different firmware and connect an MS3 to a Microsquirt module for additional I/O
    https://www.msextra.com/product-rang...squirt-io-box/
    This might be better than the 3X add-on as you can drop it on at any time via the 2 wires of the CAN bus.

    MS3-Pro, MSPNP and a whole bunch of OEM and engine specific boxes
    MS3X in a proper enclosure with a real harness. Or MS with engine-specific options are for LS motors, certain Fords, basically intended as plug & play ECU replacements.
    TBH these dangerously close in price to commercial solutions and probably of limited application in the DeLorean.
    Luke S :: 10270 :: 82 Grey 5-Speed :: Single Watercooled T3 .60/.48 :: Borla Exhaust :: MSD Ignition :: MS3X Fully SFI Odd-fire EFI :: DevilsOwn Methanol Injection

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