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Thread: Alternator and starter

  1. #1
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    Alternator and starter

    In my research on this site I came across a couple things that I wasn't looking for and filed them in my steel trap for later.

    1. Someone was referring to the alternator and said "replace that alternator now, not later". I see there are two kinds of alternators at DMC. Is it just one of them that is bad? Is it that bad that I shouldn't wait to replace it? How do I tell if I have the bad one?

    2. I also read somewhere that I should replace the starter with a eagle starter. Does that mean an AMC Eagle? Is that something I should do now also rather than wait for mine to fail?

  2. #2
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    There were two original alternators. The first was one from Ducellier which was later replaced with one from Motorola. The Ducellier was terrible and high a high failure rate which it was replaced by a Motorola unit. The Motorola units were good, but, they are underpowered for the car..they can also be rebuilt as well.

    The newer ones that DMCH and other vendors sell is one from a GM car. I purchased one from Autozone from a 1994 Chevy Camaro with a 3.4 engine that comes with a lifetime warranty on it for replacement and it's also rated at 105 amps, much more than the original alternators.

    -You'll also need a spacer that is 3/4" in OD, 1/2" long and for a 3/8" bolt. You can getaways the spacer from Mcmaster Carr (https://www.mcmaster.com/) and the part number is 92510A798. You'll need to widen the hole of the spacer slightly by using a 25/64 drill bit to fit the bolt of the alternator. Below is a picture of the alternator with the spacer installed on the bracket.

    - You'll also need to swap out the serpentine belt pulley on the alternator with a V belt pulley: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mch-131.

    - The last thing you'll need (and the most important one) is GM pigtail that you need to splice into your wire harness for the alternator (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C5E8N8...8sy6ssuXct5oSE). On the connector, the only two wires you need are the "S" sense wire and the "L" lamp wire. If you have the Ducellier alternator, clip off the Ducellier's alternator wire and connect the sense wire from the GM plug would get to the brown wire and the "L" would connect to the original brown/yellow wire. If you have the Motorola unit, chances are the brown wire is not there so you can just loop the "S" wire from the GM plug onto the BAT post of the alternator (where that big bundle of brown wires connects to) and then connect the "L" to the brown/yellow. It's extremely important that you connect the "L" wire and that your battery light in your dash is working or the alternator will not output any power. Also, if you upgrade to LED lights in your dash, do not change the battery light with an LED, leave the original bulb in it or you'll have electrical issues.

    You could buy an alternator kit from a vendor but you wouldn't get the lifetime replacement warranty that the auto parts stores have on theirs.

    As for the starter: If it's working, you don't need to replace it. If you want to replace it for some peace of mind then yes, its a starter from a 1989 Eagle Premier 3.0. Again, get the starter from a parts store that offers a lifetime warranty on replacements.
    Attached Images

  3. #3
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    Good answer!

    ========

    If you don't see the brown wire mentioned, it is small like the brown with yellow wire (not large like the main terminal wire) and can usually be found terminated a few inches up the harness.

    It is very important to use a pulley no larger than the one in the link because the D's main drive pulley is smaller than most. Otherwise the voltage may be too low at idle.

    There are two 94 Camaro alternators. Look under the fan and count the spokes in the housing. The one with a 5 spoke housing uses a larger bearing than the 3 spoke. Bigger is better...

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    Good info there. Thankyou.

    Edit, my current alternator doesn't have either Ducellier or Motorola on it. It has something like "Valon" on a sticker. Is there a easy way to recognize the alternator and starter. If they are original, I want to replace them anyways.
    Last edited by Helirich; 04-25-2021 at 10:13 AM.

  5. #5
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    The original starter looks like this.

    Never heard of Valon...A Toyota Avalon alternator looks like it might work with some mounting mods.
    Is it bigger than a bread box?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    The original starter looks like this.

    Never heard of Valon...A Toyota Avalon alternator looks like it might work with some mounting mods.
    Is it bigger than a bread box?
    Might have to pull the starter to see if that's it. Might have to pull the alternator to pull the starter. Lol.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Rich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helirich View Post
    Good info there. Thankyou.

    Edit, my current alternator doesn't have either Ducellier or Motorola on it. It has something like "Valon" on a sticker. Is there a easy way to recognize the alternator and starter.
    Valeo is a Tier 1 Auto OEM supplier. Could that be the name? I'm unaware of a crossover for a Valeo unit from another car that fits the D.

    Can you see any model number or an output rating on it? Ideally you'd be able to determine its output (amps) to be sure it at delivers at least what the Motorola unit does (90A). Almost all modern alternators manage to do that.

    If the alternator pulley doesn't align with the WP and the crank pulleys then fix that or get a different unit.

    The original starter can be removed without touching the alternator.
    March '81, 5-speed, black interior

  8. #8
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helirich View Post
    Might have to pull the starter to see if that's it. Might have to pull the alternator to pull the starter. Lol.
    Na, the replacements look nothing like the OEM starter.

    =====
    I'd almost bet Rich is right.
    Valeo supplies GM 10SI, AKA Delco 2127, alternators (bought 100's of them). Google it, note the ribs on the back half, plug has 2 pins, arranged like this [- -]. I ran one for years on 1669.
    If that is what you have, the mounting mods for GM should already be there. (Keep it.)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Valeo is a Tier 1 Auto OEM supplier. Could that be the name? I'm unaware of a crossover for a Valeo unit from another car that fits the D.

    Can you see any model number or an output rating on it? Ideally you'd be able to determine its output (amps) to be sure it at delivers at least what the Motorola unit does (90A). Almost all modern alternators manage to do that.

    If the alternator pulley doesn't align with the WP and the crank pulleys then fix that or get a different unit.

    The original starter can be removed without touching the alternator.
    Could be Valeo. The sticker is in bad shape. Definitely can't see an output amps. It doesn't seem to have a problem keeping up with the fans running.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Na, the replacements look nothing like the OEM starter.

    =====
    I'd almost bet Rich is right.
    Valeo supplies GM 10SI, AKA Delco 2127, alternators (bought 100's of them). Google it, note the ribs on the back half, plug has 2 pins, arranged like this [- -]. I ran one for years on 1669.
    If that is what you have, the mounting mods for GM should already be there. (Keep it.)
    I would say I have the original starter than. (It looks like your pic)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helirich View Post
    Could be Valeo. The sticker is in bad shape. Definitely can't see an output amps. It doesn't seem to have a problem keeping up with the fans running.



    I would say I have the original starter than. (It looks like your pic)
    The original starter was a Paris-Rhone starter, not a Valeo.

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