Loosening stuck bolts w/o shearing?

[SupercoolBill]

Ha-ha, I don’t know if I would go so far as to snap them off on purpose, but yes, I go right to the left hand bit after braking a bolt. I’ve given up on “easy outs”.

Yeah easy outs are rubbish. I have never had good luck with them. They just widen the stud and make it jam in there all the more. Then when they snap off in there....oh boy....your nackered then!!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[DrWin]

This mornings events leads us directly to: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?19...ng-stuck-bolts

[Ethan Rode]

I've done probably 10-11 Y-pipe removals.

In my experience, there's no way to know how bad your bolts are before you remove them. In three or four of the cars I've seen the bolts get locked into the y-pipe. I'll consider it lucky if I only break one or two. I think I've only had two cars where no bolts broke.

Point being... It's ok if the bolts break; have a strategy for when they do, and don't freak out about it.

I have two methods depending on how the bolt is broken that work consistently:

-If there is enough of the bolt shank sticking out of the block to pass fully through an 8mm nut, clean up the shank and weld a nut on. If there isn't enough bolt left to pass through a nut, don't waste your time unless you're able to TIG weld the nut on, and really get good penetration into the remains of the bolt

-If the bolt is broken near flush with the block, file the head flat, center punch the shank and drill the bolt out. Best practices are important here, start small, and step up your hole size in small steps. I believe the bolts were case hardened, so the centers aren't very hard.

With both methods, and regardless of how everything came out, I recommend Heli-Coils or Time-Serts in all the holes before the Y-pipe goes on. It's cheap insurance.

From experience, I'd advise against:
- Easy-Outs, they are blind holes in a very confined space. A broken Easy-out will ruin your day
- Ox-Acetylene Torch, The melting point of the block is lower than the point where the corrosion bond will break on a steel bolt. Mapp Gas is as hot as I'd recommend.

[SupercoolBill]

I've done probably 10-11 Y-pipe removals.

In my experience, there's no way to know how bad your bolts are before you remove them. In three or four of the cars I've seen the bolts get locked into the y-pipe. I'll consider it lucky if I only break one or two. I think I've only had two cars where no bolts broke.

Point being... It's ok if the bolts break; have a strategy for when they do, and don't freak out about it.

I have two methods depending on how the bolt is broken that work consistently:

-If there is enough of the bolt shank sticking out of the block to pass fully through an 8mm nut, clean up the shank and weld a nut on. If there isn't enough bolt left to pass through a nut, don't waste your time unless you're able to TIG weld the nut on, and really get good penetration into the remains of the bolt

-If the bolt is broken near flush with the block, file the head flat, center punch the shank and drill the bolt out. Best practices are important here, start small, and step up your hole size in small steps. I believe the bolts were case hardened, so the centers aren't very hard.

With both methods, and regardless of how everything came out, I recommend Heli-Coils or Time-Serts in all the holes before the Y-pipe goes on. It's cheap insurance.

From experience, I'd advise against:
- Easy-Outs, they are blind holes in a very confined space. A broken Easy-out will ruin your day
- Ox-Acetylene Torch, The melting point of the block is lower than the point where the corrosion bond will break on a steel bolt. Mapp Gas is as hot as I'd recommend.

Great advice. I am going to be removing the exhaust manifolds and connectors from my engine soon and mine is one of the worst I have seen as far as rust.
I should print out what you said and tape it to the wall in my shop.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[SupercoolBill]

Can you expound on this "Regardless of how everything came out, I recommend Heli-Coils or Time-Serts in all the holes before the Y-pipe goes on. It's cheap insurance."
So even if the threads were saved you still drill out the threads and do Heli-coils?
Are you talking about the engine block due to the fact that it is aluminum? I did this on my 1970 BMW motorcycle that I restored. The engine is all aluminum. I got sick of finding stripped out threads so I just started Heli-coiling every threaded hole in the block Eben if the threads were ok.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[dmcman73]

Can you expound on this "Regardless of how everything came out, I recommend Heli-Coils or Time-Serts in all the holes before the Y-pipe goes on. It's cheap insurance."
So even if the threads were saved you still drill out the threads and do Heli-coils?
Are you talking about the engine block due to the fact that it is aluminum? I did this on my 1970 BMW motorcycle that I restored. The engine is all aluminum. I got sick of finding stripped out threads so I just started Heli-coiling every threaded hole in the block Eben if the threads were ok.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Don't drill out good threads to install Time-Serts or Helicoils, just drill out stripped ones or ones where you can not torque the bolts down properly.

Also, stay away from HeliCoils, they are the worst of the worst...I still can't understand why people still like them, time-serts are the best there is and are permanent, they are a bit pricey and require special tools to install, but they are well worth it.

[DrWin]

I've done probably 10-11 Y-pipe removals.

In my experience, there's no way to know how bad your bolts are before you remove them. In three or four of the cars I've seen the bolts get locked into the y-pipe. I'll consider it lucky if I only break one or two. I think I've only had two cars where no bolts broke.

Point being... It's ok if the bolts break; have a strategy for when they do, and don't freak out about it.

I have two methods depending on how the bolt is broken that work consistently:

-If there is enough of the bolt shank sticking out of the block to pass fully through an 8mm nut, clean up the shank and weld a nut on. If there isn't enough bolt left to pass through a nut, don't waste your time unless you're able to TIG weld the nut on, and really get good penetration into the remains of the bolt

-If the bolt is broken near flush with the block, file the head flat, center punch the shank and drill the bolt out. Best practices are important here, start small, and step up your hole size in small steps. I believe the bolts were case hardened, so the centers aren't very hard.

With both methods, and regardless of how everything came out, I recommend Heli-Coils or Time-Serts in all the holes before the Y-pipe goes on. It's cheap insurance.

From experience, I'd advise against:
- Easy-Outs, they are blind holes in a very confined space. A broken Easy-out will ruin your day
- Ox-Acetylene Torch, The melting point of the block is lower than the point where the corrosion bond will break on a steel bolt. Mapp Gas is as hot as I'd recommend.

Duly noted. I have to drill then.

Don't drill out good threads to install Time-Serts or Helicoils, just drill out stripped ones or ones where you can not torque the bolts down properly.

Also, stay away from HeliCoils, they are the worst of the worst...I still can't understand why people still like them, time-serts are the best there is and are permanent, they are a bit pricey and require special tools to install, but they are well worth it.

Time-Sets it is then.

[SupercoolBill]

Don't drill out good threads to install Time-Serts or Helicoils, just drill out stripped ones or ones where you can not torque the bolts down properly.

Also, stay away from HeliCoils, they are the worst of the worst...I still can't understand why people still like them, time-serts are the best there is and are permanent, they are a bit pricey and require special tools to install, but they are well worth it.

I thought that they both required the tool and were permanent. Maybe I have been using timeserts and not Helicoil then

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Ethan Rode]

Don't drill out good threads to install Time-Serts or Helicoils, just drill out stripped ones or ones where you can not torque the bolts down properly.

Also, stay away from HeliCoils, they are the worst of the worst...I still can't understand why people still like them, time-serts are the best there is and are permanent, they are a bit pricey and require special tools to install, but they are well worth it.

I can't say I've had a problem with Heli-Coils, or coil type inserts, as long as they are installed properly and not over-torqued. Time-serts are a better solution for sure. However they require more material to be removed, and frankly more skill to get right. Also, TimeSert doesn't offer stainless inserts in M7, while Heli-Coils are stainless.

Since I offer a warranty with my work, I replace all the threads under the Y-pipe because the "light alloy" that the block is made of is junk. As long as the torque spec is not exceeded (14 ft/lb, I believe) these bolts will remain serviceable for the next guy in 15 years, and help keep the car on the road.

The cylinder heads are made out of a much more resilient alloy, so there is not usually a need to repair exhaust stud holes, unless there has been pullout.

[Bitsyncmaster]

With installing the inserts you have a much stronger connection. You can use more force if the bolt requires it because the insert is bonding to more area of the soft aluminum. When we were making castings for the military we always had inserts in all bolt holes.