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Thread: VIN 11596 Frame Swap - a rolling frame-off restoration

  1. #241
    DMC Timeless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 82DMC12 View Post
    What's next? Well I have an improved rebuilt brake master cylinder I'm going to install as well as change the brake pads because I think they may have been fouled out from zinc paint getting on them.
    Where did you get the brake master from? Curious who sells the 'best' one on the market as I've heard bad things about reproduction units.
    ~LXA~
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  2. #242
    Senior Member 82DMC12's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Olathe, KS

    Posts:    1,760

    My VIN:    11596

    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    Where did you get the brake master from? Curious who sells the 'best' one on the market as I've heard bad things about reproduction units.

    I had PJ Grady sleeve my brake master, clutch master, and clutch slave a LONG time ago. No problems with them until probably 15 years later my slave started to leak. While doing my frame-off I sent them all back out to get freshened up again. We had some issues finding seals for my Saab master cylinder (larger bore and 50/50 bias) but it finally all came together so I'm taking my spare repro master cylinder out and putting my Saab back in. I guess you can still find the Saab units on ebay if you need a core.
    Andy Lien

    VIN 11596 Jan 1982 build - owned since Nov. 2000!
    Total frame-off restoration completed 2021-2023

    Photography and Backpacking is life.

    Was Fargo, ND
    Now Kansas City

  3. #243
    Senior Member 82DMC12's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Olathe, KS

    Posts:    1,760

    My VIN:    11596

    Yesterday I got the brake updates done. I started by sucking out the fluid from the master cylinder reservoir with a mityvac. Then I removed the front calipers and old pads and hardware, then compressed each piston in with a C-clamp pushing against a paint stick on both sides so it won't mess up my finish on the calipers. I replaced the front pads, and then set about removing the old master cylinder.

    The master cylinder I've been using while waiting for my rebuild is a spare repro master cylinder that I bought for another owner while working on his car but he ended up not needing it. I kept it around "just in case" and I was glad to have it. However when I removed it from the booster I could see the inside of the booster was wet, in fact enough fluid was in the well that it ran down the booster and onto the fuel tank. Maybe I removed this thing not a moment too soon.

    I then set up the new cylinder with the reservoir installed in my vise and used a couple of old brake pipes cut up to direct the output back into the reservoir so I could manually bench bleed the cylinder. I've used these pipes for this a few times and they are getting kind of ratty. I had to use teflon tape to keep them from leaking or drawing air in but I was satisfied with the bleed job.

    I laid numerous old towels and rags under the booster area in case I spilled any fluid, and quickly installed the master cylinder, full of fluid.

    It was then that I found what I thought was a full 32 bottle of brake fluid was actually half used. Damn! I ended up driving out to a speed shop in Independence MO to pick up two cans of ATE 200 Dot 4 fluid.

    Once the master was installed I went to the rear brakes where I wanted to swap out some braided lines for SS pipe. I had to remove the calipers to do this so I ended up changing the pads and greased everything back there too. Once installed, I used a Motive power brake bleeder to flush all the lines out and refill with the ATE fluid. Even though I had no bubbles passing through the bleeders, the brake pedal still felt a bit soft, so I went old-school and zip tied my clear hose to the bleeder, put the other end into a mason jar submerged in an inch of brake fluid, opened the bleeder, and then pumped the brakes sharply a few times. I took video with my phone so I could see what happened and sure enough at each corner I got a bit more air out. Maybe the master still had an air pocket. Anyway, now the brake pedal is good and hard.

    All that's left is to bed in the brake pads.

    PXL_20240208_212052881.jpg





    Bench bleeding setup. I protect the finish on the master cylinder with paint stir sticks. I painted the master using VHT engine paint and then Duplicolor Clear ceramic. Baked in an oven at 200F for one hour.









    PXL_20240209_021049975.jpg







    Motive power bleeder hooked up. I don't fill the tank with fluid since I rarely use it. I just use it to compress the air in the reservoir and then I have to be careful that the reservoir doesn't empty as I go around to the calipers and bleed them out.












    PXL_20240209_023232776.jpg







    This makes it really easy to bleed the brakes. I keep the hose submerged in fluid. You can easily see the bubbles flowing through the tube so you know when you're done. Below is a video I took showing the additional bubbles I got out by doing the "one man bleeder" trick. Basically you just zip tie the hose to the bleeder so it doesn't fell off (and makes it air-tight), put the other end in a jar submerged in fluid, crack open the bleeder, then get in the car and pump the brakes. Push the brake pedal medium-hard to the floor, then slowly release. Repeat a few times and you'll surely get the rest of the air out, resulting in a nice hard brake pedal.













    https://youtube.com/shorts/wI65ls1Slxs
    Andy Lien

    VIN 11596 Jan 1982 build - owned since Nov. 2000!
    Total frame-off restoration completed 2021-2023

    Photography and Backpacking is life.

    Was Fargo, ND
    Now Kansas City

  4. #244
    Senior Member 82DMC12's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Olathe, KS

    Posts:    1,760

    My VIN:    11596

    PXL_20240208_125928843.jpg


































































    This damn reproduction master cylinder (G1 version with DMC stamped on it) was leaking out the bore and into my booster. It was not dripping down the booster until I removed the cylinder. The outside of the piston and retaining clips were all wet with brake fluid. I quickly wiped this up and let it dry before installing the new master cylinder. Just another one of those situations where the original part is better than the new part, especially if you get it rebuilt with a brass sleeve and better seals.
    Andy Lien

    VIN 11596 Jan 1982 build - owned since Nov. 2000!
    Total frame-off restoration completed 2021-2023

    Photography and Backpacking is life.

    Was Fargo, ND
    Now Kansas City

  5. #245
    Senior Member 82DMC12's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Olathe, KS

    Posts:    1,760

    My VIN:    11596

    420911116_1136879817730978_1605456915672236710_n.jpg

































































    Since Castrol GT-LMA and even Castrol Synthetic Dot 4 seem to be NLA, I decided to use ATE 200 Dot 4. This fluid is well-known in the BMW and Audi service shops and have also been recommended to me by a couple of vendors (well one of them might be an ex-vendor...). It can be hard to find but you can order it online or maybe find it at an import speed shop like I did.
    Andy Lien

    VIN 11596 Jan 1982 build - owned since Nov. 2000!
    Total frame-off restoration completed 2021-2023

    Photography and Backpacking is life.

    Was Fargo, ND
    Now Kansas City

  6. #246
    Senior Member 82DMC12's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Olathe, KS

    Posts:    1,760

    My VIN:    11596

    Andy Lien

    VIN 11596 Jan 1982 build - owned since Nov. 2000!
    Total frame-off restoration completed 2021-2023

    Photography and Backpacking is life.

    Was Fargo, ND
    Now Kansas City

  7. #247
    Senior Member 82DMC12's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Olathe, KS

    Posts:    1,760

    My VIN:    11596

    Whew, I guess it's been a while since my last update.

    Well the brakes are fine with no leaks and a nice hard pedal. I'm not sure I'm satisfied with the braking performance though. The pedal is hard but the brakes just don't have the bite that I feel like a modern car has. I could be wrong but I think the brakes used to be stronger years ago, almost as if they now have a slight fade all the time. I did bed the brakes in really well (smokin'!!!) and they are OK, they are not unsafe, but they could be better. I might look at getting EBC Red pads, or maybe even consider a big brake kit in the future. I'm going to just run with what I've got for a while anyway.
    Andy Lien

    VIN 11596 Jan 1982 build - owned since Nov. 2000!
    Total frame-off restoration completed 2021-2023

    Photography and Backpacking is life.

    Was Fargo, ND
    Now Kansas City

  8. #248
    Senior Member 82DMC12's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Olathe, KS

    Posts:    1,760

    My VIN:    11596

    Next thing I got into was opening up both of my doors and giving everything a good refresh. Last time I was in the door panels was at least 20 years ago. Since then I had started to have a couple of little rattles and I knew I had not replaced my shredded vapor barriers. If I am going to drive this car more often and possibly go on multi-day trips, I want to make sure I'm waterproof.

    So, I got inside the passenger door first and everything was more or less in order. I replaced the inner wipe seal with the upgraded PJ Grady seal which was a huge improvement in quality. I cleaned all the electrical connections and lubricated the latches with silicone spray. New vapor barrier adhered with butyl tape - that was very easy to use, much better than any liquid adhesive. New fir tree clips and I reinforced the A/C vent frame before putting the lower arm rest back on.
    Andy Lien

    VIN 11596 Jan 1982 build - owned since Nov. 2000!
    Total frame-off restoration completed 2021-2023

    Photography and Backpacking is life.

    Was Fargo, ND
    Now Kansas City

  9. #249
    Senior Member 82DMC12's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Olathe, KS

    Posts:    1,760

    My VIN:    11596

    PXL_20240210_031639091.jpg






    One of the first things I noticed when taking everything apart is these two stacks of washers under the door latch bracket. They are not in the parts manual but I confirmed with Rob Grady that most cars have a few washers acting as shims right here. I had three on the passenger door and none on the driver door. I decided to add two to the driver door since I was having issues with my escutcheon lining up and hoping that would make a difference.













    PXL_20240210_212804459.jpg






    I found a few sources of rattles....








    PXL_20240210_212807873.jpg







    Driver door had no screws or washers here!












    PXL_20240211_202654869.jpg




    Many of the threaded holes were messed up from using sheet metal screw and other odd hardware. I was able to re-tap most of them and use the correct hardware again!
    Andy Lien

    VIN 11596 Jan 1982 build - owned since Nov. 2000!
    Total frame-off restoration completed 2021-2023

    Photography and Backpacking is life.

    Was Fargo, ND
    Now Kansas City

  10. #250
    Senior Member 82DMC12's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Olathe, KS

    Posts:    1,760

    My VIN:    11596

    PXL_20240218_201247068.jpg



    One of the first things I did was tape up the edges of the stainless inside the so I would not cut myself. I used blue duct tape. Then I removed all of the old crappy velcro from the inside of the door skin which helps keep the glass from getting scratched. Well, much of this velcro was long gone and it had actually scratched my driver door drop glass. I decided to replace the glass (more on that later). I cleaned up the old adhesive and then applied about 2 feet of soft velcro 2-inches wide to the door. Heavy duty stuff and won't fall off.












    PXL_20240217_130943930.jpg







    Next I decided to replace the driver door glass divider. My old one was gouged from either a rock or vandalism and it was really scratched up inside from careless drop glass removal decades ago. This is a HELL JOB and I don't recommend it unless you really need to replace it. There's a seal that goes inside the divider which is extremely hard to replace and get into the window again. I had to use weatherstrip adhesive to secure it to the divider channel before anything else.







    PXL_20240224_202929752.jpg



    Then you have to lay the seal and help it form a U-shape. I used paint stir sticks since they were the exact width needed to help mold it into shape. Where it turns in the corners, I had to use a tiny bit of superglue to hold it up to the divider wall. Then I worked it onto the glass over the course of probably 30 minutes using spray soapy water and two thin credit card to keep the seal from folding under the fixed glass. Lots of other maneuvering and cussing and I finally got it riveted in.












    PXL_20240225_060136181.jpg






    This is the outer wipe seal, which I also attached with weatherstrip adhesive and clamped it overnight.
    Andy Lien

    VIN 11596 Jan 1982 build - owned since Nov. 2000!
    Total frame-off restoration completed 2021-2023

    Photography and Backpacking is life.

    Was Fargo, ND
    Now Kansas City

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