Electrogenic is now offering a "drop-in" EV conversion

[dn010]

As somebody that has been daily driving an ICE for 22 years, I can tell you with certainty that gasoline has proven reliable.

It doesn't really matter who produces the "fastest" DeLorean, we're all faced with the same speed signs.

[Chris4099]

If an EV does what I want it to do, I'm all in. I would GLADLY drive an ev but I will not wait a minimum of 30 minutes for a charge and hope when I get to a station, there isn't a line.

Well, you are in luck. Lines while not unheard of are also not common either. I've done countless road trips (probably totaling over 20k miles). Only once did I have to wait and even then, it was 2 minutes. Likewise, charging stops should only last about 20 minutes. I like to combine them with my bathroom/snack stops. During my last 1,000 mile trip to Las Vegas, I probably spent a grand total of 1 hour over 2 days just sitting and waiting in the car for it to charge. Rest of the time I was doing other things while the car charged. And if you pick the right charging network, you can get reliable real-time usage of the site before arriving. No need to wonder/hope when you know exactly what the situation is like ahead of you.

When they are HONEST about the range, and I don't have to guess, when the battery life and replacement cost truly offsets the gas savings, when the infrastructure is normalized and charging stations are more abundant (not many around my neck of the woods), then and only then I will consider it. I'm glad you are happy, but I want more out of a $50k+ purchase.

OK, so lots to unpack here. I hate to start with a whataboutism, but what about gas cars? Have you ever had one that could easily get the rated MPG? EVs are no different. Efficiency ratings are really meant for comparison between cars. As long as you stick to an EV with 250+ mile rating, it really doesn't matter anyway. I can't recall the last time I discharged mine below 40% in daily driving. It just doesn't matter when you start each day with a "full tank".

Batteries should last the life of the car (excluding the original Leaf) as replacements are very rare and even then usually done under a 8 year warranty that virtually all EVs come with. I don't know how long you keep a new car on average, but most don't keep them over 8 years. But even if you buy a used EV that's over 8 years old, it's still low risk. There was a recent article where they covered the odds of needing a battery replacement and show the data: https://www.recurrentauto.com/resear...batteries-last Now I will agree that if you need a replacement, it's going to be expensive and that's not right. Usually most pack failures are simple things like BMS boards or thermistors. Most manufactures just swap the battery with a refurb and send the old pack back to the factory for repair. This makes sense in that you don't need a dealership tech trained in battery maintenance, but it also means they don't charge you for the actual fault in the battery. Hopefully as demand increases, there will be more 3rd party repair options. There are a few shops already that can do this at a fraction of the dealership cost.

As for charging infrastructure, why does it matter how many there are near where you live? You are thinking with a gas mentality, not EV. The vast majority of charging is done at home (about 90% of mine is done there). After all, why would I pay more for the inconvenience of not charging at home? I only care about public infrastructure where I travel to. And fortunately it's been over 7 years since I last took a trip where I couldn't drive an EV. Ever since then, I've had no issues charging on the road and at my destination.

Finally, both my EVs cost less then $50k. If you make less then $300k a year, you can get a performance Tesla Model 3 or Y for under that amount and be doing constant 0-60 in under 3 or 4 seconds with a real world range of about 250 or 200 miles. Even without the credit, both long range versions are under $50k.

It's not Fear, it is very much uncertainty and doubt because we know what we want out of a car, and right now, ev makers don't provide what I'm looking for.

All I ask is you actually take a closer look out there and not go by what those that don't even own an EV say. Are they perfect, no. But neither are gas cars. And for daily driving, they have a lot of advantages. And the "sacrifices" you make for road trips are not that bad or frequent (I actually prefer EV road trips over gas due to the comfort of the drive itself). I'm going on a 740 mile road trip next week to Montana in a single day (with a 4 year old). Once I get there, I'll report back and be 100% honest with you in what I experience. If I experience a line or down chargers, I'll let you know.

[Timeless]

Well, you are in luck. Lines while not unheard of are also not common either. I've done countless road trips (probably totaling over 20k miles). Only once did I have to wait and even then, it was 2 minutes. Likewise, charging stops should only last about 20 minutes. I like to combine them with my bathroom/snack stops. During my last 1,000 mile trip to Las Vegas, I probably spent a grand total of 1 hour over 2 days just sitting and waiting in the car for it to charge. Rest of the time I was doing other things while the car charged. And if you pick the right charging network, you can get reliable real-time usage of the site before arriving. No need to wonder/hope when you know exactly what the situation is like ahead of you.

My last stay in Vegas with the Tesla was complete shit. 2.5 hours waiting at a supercharger. Lines ARE common. Heat was high and the stalls were full causing EXTREMELY slow charging - even at Tesla v3 units. I have owned 2 Teslas and a Taycan. No more - I'm back to driving vintage cars everyday and that makes me happy.
Battery tech and infrastructure is not there yet - period.

[Chris4099]

There's 19 different Supercharger sites in Vegas. Did you use the car display to see the status of the others in the area? Where they all showing as full? I've Supercharged in 108 degree heat at full speed and so have others (that's not very high when it comes to normal vehicle operating temperature). So something else must have been wrong if people weren't getting full speed. The battery tech was not the issue. That's not to say that never happens, but clearly something "not normal" was causing that.

[Helirich]

I don't give a flying F about coal usage, price, BS environmental concerns, virtue signaling, blah blah blah.

If an EV does what I want it to do, I'm all in. I would GLADLY drive an ev but I will not wait a minimum of 30 minutes for a charge and hope when I get to a station, there isn't a line.

When they are HONEST about the range, and I don't have to guess, when the battery life and replacement cost truly offsets the gas savings, when the infrastructure is normalized and charging stations are more abundant (not many around my neck of the woods), then and only then I will consider it. I'm glad you are happy, but I want more out of a $50k+ purchase.

It's not Fear, it is very much uncertainty and doubt because we know what we want out of a car, and right now, ev makers don't provide what I'm looking for.

This is my feelings. I believe EVs will take over the market. They just arnt there yet. When they truly out preform ICEs, they won?t need grants, rebates or tax incentives for people to buy them.

[Michael]

Well, you are in luck. Lines while not unheard of are also not common either. I've done countless road trips (probably totaling over 20k miles). Only once did I have to wait and even then, it was 2 minutes. Likewise, charging stops should only last about 20 minutes. I like to combine them with my bathroom/snack stops. During my last 1,000 mile trip to Las Vegas, I probably spent a grand total of 1 hour over 2 days just sitting and waiting in the car for it to charge. Rest of the time I was doing other things while the car charged. And if you pick the right charging network, you can get reliable real-time usage of the site before arriving. No need to wonder/hope when you know exactly what the situation is like ahead of you.



OK, so lots to unpack here. I hate to start with a whataboutism, but what about gas cars? Have you ever had one that could easily get the rated MPG? EVs are no different. Efficiency ratings are really meant for comparison between cars. As long as you stick to an EV with 250+ mile rating, it really doesn't matter anyway. I can't recall the last time I discharged mine below 40% in daily driving. It just doesn't matter when you start each day with a "full tank".

Batteries should last the life of the car (excluding the original Leaf) as replacements are very rare and even then usually done under a 8 year warranty that virtually all EVs come with. I don't know how long you keep a new car on average, but most don't keep them over 8 years. But even if you buy a used EV that's over 8 years old, it's still low risk. There was a recent article where they covered the odds of needing a battery replacement and show the data: https://www.recurrentauto.com/resear...batteries-last Now I will agree that if you need a replacement, it's going to be expensive and that's not right. Usually most pack failures are simple things like BMS boards or thermistors. Most manufactures just swap the battery with a refurb and send the old pack back to the factory for repair. This makes sense in that you don't need a dealership tech trained in battery maintenance, but it also means they don't charge you for the actual fault in the battery. Hopefully as demand increases, there will be more 3rd party repair options. There are a few shops already that can do this at a fraction of the dealership cost.

As for charging infrastructure, why does it matter how many there are near where you live? You are thinking with a gas mentality, not EV. The vast majority of charging is done at home (about 90% of mine is done there). After all, why would I pay more for the inconvenience of not charging at home? I only care about public infrastructure where I travel to. And fortunately it's been over 7 years since I last took a trip where I couldn't drive an EV. Ever since then, I've had no issues charging on the road and at my destination.

Finally, both my EVs cost less then $50k. If you make less then $300k a year, you can get a performance Tesla Model 3 or Y for under that amount and be doing constant 0-60 in under 3 or 4 seconds with a real world range of about 250 or 200 miles. Even without the credit, both long range versions are under $50k.



All I ask is you actually take a closer look out there and not go by what those that don't even own an EV say. Are they perfect, no. But neither are gas cars. And for daily driving, they have a lot of advantages. And the "sacrifices" you make for road trips are not that bad or frequent (I actually prefer EV road trips over gas due to the comfort of the drive itself). I'm going on a 740 mile road trip next week to Montana in a single day (with a 4 year old). Once I get there, I'll report back and be 100% honest with you in what I experience. If I experience a line or down chargers, I'll let you know.

The HUGE difference in range and MPG is that in a ICE, range doesn't matter because it doesn't take 30-45 minutes to stop at the next gas station and be on my way....with a slurpee.

Range and MPG is, again, a HUGE difference.

I get that in an urban environment, range anxiety isn't really a thing. I live in the Appalachian Highlands. It's 10 miles to the closest gas station or fast food joint from where I sit in this moment. This is Northeast TN, not Atlanta. I seriously looked at a used Model 3 as my daily but I do plan on a lot of road trips and to be honest, I'm more worried about convience than saving money on gas.

Don't get me wrong...Moore's Law applies here. Charging times will get shorter, range will increase, cost will shrink.

It's just still too much for too little, for me....for now.

If you are happy with your ev, that is it's own reward.

[Chris4099]

Again, I just want to reemphasize that you don't generally have to charge for 30-45 minutes. You only have to do that if you want to charge the battery all the way up. Gas car mentality is not good for EVs. You charge to what you need to get to the next stop (with buffer) to take advantage of the charging curve. This keeps your stops to about 15-20 minutes after every 2 hours of driving. It sounds complex but the car navigation can do this for you if you wanted. It will alert you that you have enough charge to reach the next stop (which it also picks).

Here's a time-lapse video I made 6 years ago. It was 640 miles in each direction with 5 charging stops. I could have done it with 3 stops, but my bladder can't handle that, so I broke it into 5 to also take more advantage of the charging curve. This should give you an idea of how much you are spending between driving and charging (the time-lapse rate is unchanged through the whole video).



This was also done just before V3 Superchargers were released. If done today, I could probably have shaved another 10-20 minutes or so off each direction.

I'm not saying everyone should go out and buy an EV today. But to me, it's pretty obvious they can currently meet the vast majority of use cases now. The only part they lack in is towing, but even then they are making inroads. All I want is for people to be honest about what they actually do in a car and understand what an EV can actually do as well (not what somebody else that doesn't even own one has said).

On a side note (not directed to Michael), I've found it interesting how ironic the EV FUD is on a DeLorean forum. This topic has come up every now and then over the last decade or so. You would think with people that have to deal with other people saying things like "Isn't John DeLorean still in jail?" or "Is that an overweight aluminum kit car made in Canada?", that they themselves wouldn't fall for such bad information about other cars.

[dn010]

keeps your stops to about 15-20 minutes after every 2 hours of driving.

So what you're telling us is that you can make a 6 hour drive in 6.75-7.0 hours with an EV compared to making a 6 hour drive in 6 hours like the majority of the rest of us?

[FABombjoy]

Some people like to get out and stretch, use the can, get some food.
A long drive takes a little longer. But you never having to stop at a station ever for regional use.
If you aren't long distance driving constantly the balance sheet works out.

If Timeless had EVs and went back to gas, I respect it. He formed his own opinion instead of adopting someone else's.

I won't be buying the Electrogenic kit because it's to expensive for what you get.
It would reduce my favorite weekend driving tour car to a "Point A to Point A" light use novelty. Hard pass.

Instead I'm building a gasoline engine for my DMC that will be light years from miserly.
A lot of us exist as car enthusiasts in both EV & gasoline spaces. If it has wheels I'll drive it. A LOT of us are like this.

[Chris4099]

So what you're telling us is that you can make a 6 hour drive in 6.75-7.0 hours with an EV compared to making a 6 hour drive in 6 hours like the majority of the rest of us?

Almost. As mentioned above, most people can't do 6 hours non-stop. 6 hours at say 70MPH is 420 miles. Many gas cars won't make that either. Of course to get that far you have to stop at the gas station before you hit the freeway and then again after 300 miles. So you need to take two stops minimum (probably more if you want to keep a healthy bladder). Also, don't forget EVs charge overnight, so you start with a "full tank" when leaving. So in that case, I would probably go 3 hours or 200 miles before first charging stop. With 220 miles left, I can do it with just one more stop assuming I have charging at the destination. If not, I might add a third stop to "top up" before arriving.

So assuming the charging station locations worked out, a 400 mile road trip will probably only take 15-30 minutes longer then gas. A 600 mile road trip would probably be closer to 1 hour. But if your time is so valuable that you can't sacrifice 1 more hour in the day for the drive, you should probably be flying there instead.

Also as mentioned above, during total time of ownership, I spend significantly less time with refueling my EVs. During normal daily driving, I spend 5 seconds in the morning and 5 seconds in the evening to unplug/plug the car. Even when factoring the extra time I spend at a quick charge station during road trips, my net time spent is still way less with EVs. I save further time by letting my 4 year old son plug the car in which he loves to do. Can't have him safely pump gas though. LOL