Electrogenic is now offering a "drop-in" EV conversion

[Chris4099]

Massive amounts? The 1989 Volvo 780 Bertone with the B280F engine was one of the smoothest running cars I've ever driven. It had one, maybe two dampening pistons (I can't remember which) on the engine in addition to the two engine mounts. Same engine installed in the DeLorean does not produce much vibrating at all. A well balanced engine doesn't need much.

Do I really have to explain how luxury vehicles have more sound insulation and dampening to isolate the occupants from road, wind and engine noise? Have you not noticed how lower end cars are louder inside? All I'm saying is you don't need as much of that with an EV. As for the gas engine, remember you are moving large lumps of metal back and forth with rapid direction changes. Along with that, you have thousands of explosions happening every minute. It's truly a miracle of modern engineering they run as smoothly as they do! But compared to a solid balanced lump of metal that's just spinning in a magnetic field, there's no comparison. All other things being equal, an EV will provide a much better experience.

EV's are still an emerging technology competing against a much older but more mature technology. I agree at some point EV's will surpass internal combustion technology, we just disagree on when. Even when that happens there will still be a place for I/C technology. EV's need better batteries, faster charging times, and more charging stations. Incremental change takes time but it will happen. The free market also plays a role in how fast it happens. Too fast and you get massive economic disruptions. As for now, I/C cars are still the better choice for most people just considering economics. For many people who live in cities and have to park on the street, they can't charge their vehicles conveniently.

I believe we are much further ahead then you realize in this technology. I've already disproven many of your outdated talking points. I agree that it's not for everyone yet. Especially if you can't L2 charge at home or work. DC fast charging only is not a great experience. Even if you can get it down to 5 minutes for 300 miles of range, it's still terrible compared to simply plugging in at home/work every day (I now loath taking my D to get gas). While I believe the DCQC infrastructure is now good enough to support current EV demands for the near future (it will obviously need to keep growing to keep up with demand), we really need to work on getting L2 infrastructure out there for those that can only street park or live in apartments. But if you are like me with a garage/driveway and have electrical service at your home, then an EV might be a more valid option then you realize! Just be honest with what you actually do and how often. Even if an EV won't somehow work for that road trip you take once/twice a year or haul that occasional load from Home Depot, you can still get a rental for that and then enjoy all the benefits of an EV for your daily driving needs.

[TheStoot]

Do I really have to explain how luxury vehicles have more sound insulation and dampening to isolate the occupants from road, wind and engine noise? Have you not noticed how lower end cars are louder inside? All I'm saying is you don't need as much of that with an EV. As for the gas engine, remember you are moving large lumps of metal back and forth with rapid direction changes. Along with that, you have thousands of explosions happening every minute. It's truly a miracle of modern engineering they run as smoothly as they do! But compared to a solid balanced lump of metal that's just spinning in a magnetic field, there's no comparison. All other things being equal, an EV will provide a much better experience.



I believe we are much further ahead then you realize in this technology. I've already disproven many of your outdated talking points. I agree that it's not for everyone yet. Especially if you can't L2 charge at home or work. DC fast charging only is not a great experience. Even if you can get it down to 5 minutes for 300 miles of range, it's still terrible compared to simply plugging in at home/work every day (I now loath taking my D to get gas). While I believe the DCQC infrastructure is now good enough to support current EV demands for the near future (it will obviously need to keep growing to keep up with demand), we really need to work on getting L2 infrastructure out there for those that can only street park or live in apartments. But if you are like me with a garage/driveway and have electrical service at your home, then an EV might be a more valid option then you realize! Just be honest with what you actually do and how often. Even if an EV won't somehow work for that road trip you take once/twice a year or haul that occasional load from Home Depot, you can still get a rental for that and then enjoy all the benefits of an EV for your daily driving needs.

You "loath" having to go and get gas in your Delorean? Wow dude, talk about FIRST world problems. That's quite a pathetic thing to complain about

[Michael]

One thing is for sure. EV lovers love their EV. EV haters love their ICE. Ev bi-curious types will eventually get into the game once the (real and perceived)shortcomings are addressed.


Also I read a story on Fox News how EVs are killing puppies and kittens...not to mention breaking up families because the men who own an ev eventually leave their wives for the muscular 28yr old personal trainer at the gym (who is always named "Jeff" or "Thomas").

[jackb]

I am a new (<1 year) EV owner (Tesla Model Y).
I?ve owned countless regular ICE vehicles over the decades.

The Tesla is better in pretty much every single aspect compared to its ICE counterpart. I was skeptical, but it is clear.
The ?nicest? vehicle I?ve otherwise owned is an Altima (which is my daily- the Tesla is my wifes). And for the last 8 years Ive found it extremely comfortable, smooth driving, quiet, efficient, and fast. Now it almost feels like driving a diesel truck.

The Tesla is *fast*. Like, holy shit fast.
It is smooth. 135 feels like you are on rails.
It is quiet. Pin drop silent, at all speeds/conditions.
It is comfortable.
It is luxurious. All the fancy things a luxury car can do with options it does better standard.
It is convenient. (I?ve never used for than a full tank of fuel driving a regular car around town, and with the Tesla charging overnight, I begin every day with a ?full tank?. No more gas station stops.)

Towing is not a factor for the Tesla and more than it would be for the Altima, or a Civic, or its similar competition. That?s not what it is for.
Long distance trips require planned stops for ICE cars, so literally no difference for the Tesla. Instead of fueling at a Costco and stretching my legs to go get a hot dog, I can either watch a movie or play a game or go inside wherever the SC is for the same thing. I haven?t done a long road trip yet, but absolutely do not expect it to affect the overall travel time at all. And if it does, it will be miniscule. In exchange for a vastly more comfortable drive, and lower cost of ownership.

[Chris4099]

You "loath" having to go and get gas in your Delorean? Wow dude, talk about FIRST world problems. That's quite a pathetic thing to complain about

I just returned from my trip and can now reply to this. Your response is what I think would be similar to those 100 years ago when indoor plumbing became available. "What's wrong with an outhouse? I've been using one my whole life." Trust me, until you experience refueling at home, you don't fully realize how terrible a gas station truly is since you are so used to it. You maybe fine with the smell, driving out of your way (unless you literally drive through a gas station on a daily basis, you are going out of your way to some extent), grabbing a handle that's been touched by hundreds of people a day and never cleaned, and finally trying to not spill a drop of gas on yourself or the car. Instead I touch a charging cord that only I or my family uses at home after I park.

As for my return from Montana, it was a bit more "exciting" then my drive there. At one stop that had 8 v2 stations, there were 4 cars already there. I plugged into an unused pair and got the full 144kW rate. About 5 minutes later (while I was in a store using the bathroom and getting a drink), somebody else pulled up to the pair and plugged in. This dropped me to 72kW. Not great and ultimately added about 5 minutes to my total charging time. When we returned, 7 cars were charging and before I left, an 8th car came in, so all spots were in use. No other cars came in and had to wait. But if they did and had a CCS adaptor, they could have used the EA station right next to the Tesla Superchargers. They are about twice the price but would have worked fine. If I was running 20 minutes later, I would have seen the realtime status of the location in my navigation and rerouted to another location about a mile away. The only drawback would have been it was a little more expensive and not next to a large store for easy bathroom and snack access. But I could have easily recharged and still be on my way with minimal effort.

Same with my next stop. No reduced charging rate though because it was a v3 site, but at one point all were full. No other cars had to wait and if they did show up, the wait would have been less then 5 minutes. Or they would have seen this in the navigation and go to the other location a mile away on the other side of the freeway.

Unlike my drive to Montana, my return was on a Sunday when there is a lot of roadtrip traffic returning home and the chargers get higher utilization. Still, never once did I have to wait. No long lines and no real issues/delays. So despite what you may occasionally read of long lines, that's the exception, not the rule.

So per my original point, once a conversion kit becomes available for the DeLorean that's both produced at a reasonable volume and priced well, I'll jump on that and ditch the PRV without looking back! The kit that this thread is about is not it though. Too expensive and not a real kit. I'm guessing they use new batteries too which could explain part of the high cost. With there being so many used parts/packs available now from wrecked production EVs, I would prefer to put in a used battery pack. That would keep the cost way down. Assuming the BMS and other components are serviceable, then the pack itself should also last a good 20 years as well. At that point, a replacement would probably be even more energy dense and cheaper.

[David T]

I think you are "stretching" to make your points. Here in New Jersey it is against the law to serve yourself and touch that "filthy" nozzle. Also here in New Jersey the vapors are recovered so you don't have those nasty gas fumes. BTW, how many people touch the charging cable that never gets cleaned? Or the handle on the bathroom door? EV's are not in everyone's future but they will become more and more commonplace. As for conversions, it probably makes more sense to buy an EV car rather than convert an IC car into an EV. That way you get a warranty, someone can service it, (the dealer) and it has some resale or trade-in value. Also there could be a problem getting insurance on something "home brewed". As the infrastructure (charging stations) get built up and more plentiful, charging will be less and less of an issue over time. Back when automobiles were first introduced, there weren't a lot of gas stations. Sometimes you had to find a hardware store or a paint store that sold gas or bring enough with you. Same with paved roads. In the beginning there were few, if any, paved roads. It takes a while for the infrastructure to catch up. Right now EV's look better economically than they should. Between government subsidies and not paying road taxes, the cost of owning and operating them can be lower than an IC car. When EV's are no longer subsidized and you pay road tax they won't look as good to own and operate. But maybe by then gas will be $10 a gallon and it will be illegal to make new cars unless they are EV's? Or maybe we will have flying EV's! Order your hover-conversion kit now! Now that's a conversion I would be interested in!

[Chris4099]

I think you are "stretching" to make your points. Here in New Jersey it is against the law to serve yourself and touch that "filthy" nozzle. Also here in New Jersey the vapors are recovered so you don't have those nasty gas fumes. BTW, how many people touch the charging cable that never gets cleaned? Or the handle on the bathroom door?

I can't believe I have to say this: Most Americans don't buy gas in New Jersey. My point was for most of us that would be pumping our own gas and therefore I mentioned the differences for daily driving. Not pumping gas in New Jersey versus only DC fast charging. But since you brought it up, back when Oregon had the same law, gas stations had minimal attendants. This meant that unless you wanted to pay way too much for gas, there would be lines. I assume New Jersey is the same? Next time you get gas, count to 30. After that, note that every second you are spending there is time you wouldn't be wasting with an EV for that week. You may not have to touch the filler, but you are probably loosing more time waiting for a station attendant to remove the filler and screw the gas cap back on. Also, even with vapor recovery systems (which not all states/counties require) there's still a gas smell.

EV's are not in everyone's future but they will become more and more commonplace. As for conversions, it probably makes more sense to buy an EV car rather than convert an IC car into an EV. That way you get a warranty, someone can service it, (the dealer) and it has some resale or trade-in value. Also there could be a problem getting insurance on something "home brewed". As the infrastructure (charging stations) get built up and more plentiful, charging will be less and less of an issue over time. Back when automobiles were first introduced, there weren't a lot of gas stations. Sometimes you had to find a hardware store or a paint store that sold gas or bring enough with you. Same with paved roads. In the beginning there were few, if any, paved roads. It takes a while for the infrastructure to catch up.

You've already brought up infrastructure and I've already debunked it (this isn't pre-2017). Or can you provide me two locations within the US that aren't reachable between each other via EV but are via normal gas cars? As for DeLorean EV conversions, the same points can be made about engine swaps. But I've already pointed out why I would only do it when there's a proper kit out there (much like I would never consider an engine swap that was a one off custom job). And half this thread is me explaining why an EV conversion would just make the car better to drive.

Right now EV's look better economically than they should. Between government subsidies and not paying road taxes, the cost of owning and operating them can be lower than an IC car. When EV's are no longer subsidized and you pay road tax they won't look as good to own and operate. But maybe by then gas will be $10 a gallon and it will be illegal to make new cars unless they are EV's? Or maybe we will have flying EV's! Order your hover-conversion kit now! Now that's a conversion I would be interested in!

This varies by the state, but even in New Jersey, EV owners have to pay an extra $250 a year on their registration to cover road taxes. Unless you are buying more then 591 gallons of gas, you are actually paying less in road taxes then EV owners! Finally for subsidies, the we spend far more on fossil fuel subsidies then we do on EV subsidies. There's a reason our gas is so much cheaper then other countries. If we eliminate both subsidies, then that would make EVs far more cheaper to operate over their lifespan.

[dn010]

There's a reason our gas is so much cheaper then other countries.

I love when people use this statement. Care to explain why gas is more expensive in other countries?

[Chris4099]

I love when people use this statement. Care to explain why gas is more expensive in other countries?

We are already pushing the no politics rules with mentioning subsidies (it's why I never mentioned it only only briefly replied to Dave's comment). So to keep it as simple as possible, we subsidize by not taxing the appropriate amount while other countries do.

[dn010]

It isn't "political" to say that many other countries use the increased price of gas to pay for their benefits, such as socialized medicine.