Front wheels far forward in opening (and rear tire clearance)

[dmcman73]

What are your alignment numbers? If your caster is below +2, expect the front end of your car to feel like it's floating, or worse, once you go past 60, it's not a fun feeling. Spec says Caster should be around +3.4 - +4 (if my memory is correct) and even at that, there is still some float. I set mine at +6.5 as well as other owners (some even +7 or a bit higher) and that's a spot on caster as it really minimizes that floating feeling to almost nothing.

This project is now done. Not for everyone, but I think it looks amazing:

Attachment 71414

Attachment 71417

A great new look. Obviously I lowered the car front and rear.

I think the Delorean is still a very modern, almost futuristic design, but the small wheels and 60 series tires dates it. For me, the larger wheels and lower profile tires really bring it a fantastic look.

Here are the details. There has to be some compromise in trying to get larger wheels for a Delorean. I wanted to go to larger wheels, but not 18" for a couple reasons. One, I want to stick with the 4x100 bolt pattern and that limits it to 17" wheels. Also, I think 18" just look too big. So...

Front: 16"x7" wheels, 42mm offset, with 205/45 tires (couldn't get them in the stock 195 width).

Rear: 17"x 7 1/2" wheels, 42mm offset, with 235/45 tires. 1" spacer/adapters used.

Since the rear wheels are 1/2" narrower than the stock ones, clearance is no issue. The 1" spacers are perfect, and they could be moved in or out a bit without issue.
The front wheels are 1" wider than stock with most of that on the inside. On full lock they come very close to the ARB, but again, no issue and no rubbing anywhere.

Wheels: Touren TR60 3260 Gunmetal.
Tires: Firestone Firehawk Indy 500.
Adapters: From Custom Wheel Adapters, 1" wide with 4x100 bolt pattern for hub and wheel. These have a 72.1mm hubcentric diameter on the inside to match the hubs and a 67.1 on the outside to match the wheel. These are only needed on the rear.

Now, the clever reader will have noticed that the wheels have a 67.1mm hubcentric diameter and the Delorean hubs are 72.1mm diameter. The rears are no problem because of the adapters. For the fronts, here is what I did:

Removed the hubs, put them on the lathe, zeroed them in, and machined a bit off to fit the 67.1mm diameter of the wheels. Not much material removal.

Attachment 71415

Attachment 71416

The obvious question is, what if I (or the next owner) wants to go back to the stock wheels? Three solutions...1 - replace the hubs (not too expensive), 2 - at some point I'll get around to making some hubcentric rings to fit the machined hub diameter and the wheel bore, or 3 - ignore it and just bolt the wheels on; the tapered lug nuts will centre the wheel and there is some controversy as to whether the hubcentric feature does anything after the wheel is installed. My view is that it isn't needed.

As good as I thought it was going to look with the new wheels, it looks better! Oh, and it drives just fine.

Rick

[Carbuilder]

What are your alignment numbers? If your caster is below +2, expect the front end of your car to feel like it's floating, or worse, once you go past 60, it's not a fun feeling. Spec says Caster should be around +3.4 - +4 (if my memory is correct) and even at that, there is still some float. I set mine at +6.5 as well as other owners (some even +7 or a bit higher) and that's a spot on caster as it really minimizes that floating feeling to almost nothing.

I took it around the block a couple times. This is a country block, so several kms. Got up to around 100 kph (60 mph give or take). The car felt pretty good, but maybe a touch light in the steering. Honestly, don't know if it is different than before I did the mods. I'll have to drive it more at higher speeds to see.

I would like to increase the caster a bit more, but how do you do that without very expensive after-market upper control arms? Since the wheels are nicely centered I could move the LCA forward a touch.

Oh, I haven't checked the alignment numbers with the new wheels and the car lowered. I will do that.

Rick

[Carbuilder]

Seems that there is an answer that isn't unreasonably expensive.

https://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2...Delorean-Store

[Josh]

Well this thread certainly was an interesting read.

Im seeing a large amount of effort with some non reversible modifications to the frame, for a somewhat marginal gain.

Ultimately happy you solved your problem, but alot of negativity going towards some very senior members of the community that are trying to help.

I have done my fair share of wheel fitment with my car, along with converting to 5 lug. It is true the wheels are not centered in the wells front to back. And it varies from car to car.
I would really implore any future readers of this thread to not cut the mounting bosses on the frame. it does allow you some adjustment but it throws off your caster and the sway bar is now pushing or pulling on the LCA more than intended.

There are other ways to attack this, but it does not seem OP is open to feedback unfortunately.

[Carbuilder]

Im seeing a large amount of effort with some non reversible modifications to the frame, for a somewhat marginal gain.

Ultimately happy you solved your problem, but a lot of negativity going towards some very senior members of the community that are trying to help.

I would really implore any future readers of this thread to not cut the mounting bosses on the frame. it does allow you some adjustment but it throws off your caster and the sway bar is now pushing or pulling on the LCA more than intended.

There are other ways to attack this, but it does not seem OP is open to feedback unfortunately.

I'm kind of sorry I started this thread. I thought it would be interesting and maybe helpful to some people. It seems that the main thing it is helpful for is to criticize what I've done, over and over, and most of it from not reading everything and/or understanding it. I have no problem with criticizing what I've done and pointing out a better way to do it, but I'm not seeing that.

The main point, as detailed in the first post, is that the front tires come within 1/8" of the fender lip with the wheels turned slightly. And that is static. With the car reversing and the loads pushing the tire closer to the fender, it just didn't seem right to me.

As for criticizing what I've done without reading and/or understanding, you are guilty of that too Josh. Why are you stating "the sway bar is now pushing or pulling on the LCA more than intended"? I've explained how that is not happening.

As for "non reversible modifications to the frame, for a somewhat marginal gain", the gain completely solved my issue, so I don't see it as marginal. And "non reversible modifications"? It's not like I cut a major portion of the frame off and soldered something back on. Yes, I did cut off a small portion of a tube welded to the frame and replaced it with a bushing (made of better material); it is easily reversed by swapping the spacer from one side to the other.

As for my negativity towards some senior members trying to help, I really didn't see much help in how to solve the specific issue, only criticism. The "help" was that I should leave it alone and not worry about the tire possibly rubbing on the fender now and then. I am fully open to feedback on "other ways to attack this" but haven't seen any.

Oh, I have ordered the adjustable UCA's from lsdeloreanstore.com, so I will end up with my wheels nicely centered and increased caster if needed.

If I have been unjustly negative to members of this community, I apologize. It has just been frustrating to have this project work so well for me, but have to constantly explain how and why I am doing it.

If any moderators/administrators are reading this, feel free to delete this whole thread. It is obviously not any use to anyone and I don't want to be accused of taking up your storage space.

[DMC-Ron]

I think if anyone were to understand this, it would be Josh. I suggest readers heed his warning on the consequences.
Ron

[dmcman73]

I'm kind of sorry I started this thread. I thought it would be interesting and maybe helpful to some people. It seems that the main thing it is helpful for is to criticize what I've done, over and over, and most of it from not reading everything and/or understanding it. I have no problem with criticizing what I've done and pointing out a better way to do it, but I'm not seeing that.

The main point, as detailed in the first post, is that the front tires come within 1/8" of the fender lip with the wheels turned slightly. And that is static. With the car reversing and the loads pushing the tire closer to the fender, it just didn't seem right to me.

As for criticizing what I've done without reading and/or understanding, you are guilty of that too Josh. Why are you stating "the sway bar is now pushing or pulling on the LCA more than intended"? I've explained how that is not happening.

As for "non reversible modifications to the frame, for a somewhat marginal gain", the gain completely solved my issue, so I don't see it as marginal. And "non reversible modifications"? It's not like I cut a major portion of the frame off and soldered something back on. Yes, I did cut off a small portion of a tube welded to the frame and replaced it with a bushing (made of better material); it is easily reversed by swapping the spacer from one side to the other.

As for my negativity towards some senior members trying to help, I really didn't see much help in how to solve the specific issue, only criticism. The "help" was that I should leave it alone and not worry about the tire possibly rubbing on the fender now and then. I am fully open to feedback on "other ways to attack this" but haven't seen any.

Oh, I have ordered the adjustable UCA's from lsdeloreanstore.com, so I will end up with my wheels nicely centered and increased caster if needed.

If I have been unjustly negative to members of this community, I apologize. It has just been frustrating to have this project work so well for me, but have to constantly explain how and why I am doing it.

If any moderators/administrators are reading this, feel free to delete this whole thread. It is obviously not any use to anyone and I don't want to be accused of taking up your storage space.

Here's a portion of the thread summarized:

You: I measured the caster and Camber and I can afford to set caster more negative

Senior members: You measured it incorrectly and there is no way you have a +7 caster on a stock setup, you now made it worse from stock. Did you bring it to an alignment shop to get your actually alignment numbers before making the mods?

You: Read post 37!! I did my homework and I measured it right...I'm right you're wrong (and completely ignoring the alignment shop question)

Senior members: You measured it wrong, that's not how you measure caster

You: I did it correctly, you guys are so negative!!!

2025-03-31_08-56-17.jpg

You: Hey guys, I did measure my caster wrong and I have no idea what it was at and I now have no idea where it is after the mods....but I drove it around the block and it's great!

Senior members: What are your actual alignment numbers from the alignment shop?

You: I hate that I made this post!


People have "been there, done that" on this board, especially Josh. I am really curious to what your alignment numbers are. Also, when you do get your caster adjusted, it is going to need to be pulled back further to get it right which will cause the wheel to not be centered anymore. This is why you needed your exact caster numbers BEFORE making these mods.

[Carbuilder]

Here's a portion of the thread summarized:..

1) - If you are going to summarize, can you please do it accurately. Show me where I used all those exclamation points to get my message across. I was also, almost without exception, not being rude to people.....unlike yourself.

2) - I have been on many car forums over the years, some of which are: Miata (2 forums), Porsche (2), Corvette, Factory Five, Triumph, MGB, Fiero, Ferrari, Tesla, BMW, Sunbeam (the car, not the appliances) and probably others I've forgotten. I can honestly say I have never, NEVER on any other forum come across so much negativity and insults. On any other forum if someone suggests doing something out of the ordinary they at least get interest on why it is being done and maybe support or suggestions how to get the same result another way. Not on this forum.

3) - A lot of posters seem to take the view that the person with the most posts has the most knowledge and so they are right and others are wrong. This thread certainly proves that is not correct. There is a huge difference between theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge. At the risk of bragging, I have both having worked on and modified cars for a long, long time (yes, I have owned and worked on all the ones that I joined forums on). As the joke goes, theoretical knowledge says a bee can't fly, but the bee has practical knowledge so it does it anyways.

4) - Glad I could provide an outlet for those that just want to vent and feel more knowledgeable.

I think this thread has run its course.

ps, one other thing. It is generally agreed that Deloreans were built with varying degrees of quality control. Some have the front wheels centered in the wheel well and others have the wheels offset forward. Also, some have caster that is on spec and others have it below spec. Has anyone considered that maybe the ones with the wheels offset forward have more caster than spec (with the lower control arm mounted more forward or the upper one mounted more rearward? Think about that and why I may have reduced it and still ended up with a nicely driving car.

[ssdelorean]

1) - <<snip>>

ps, one other thing. It is generally agreed that Deloreans were built with varying degrees of quality control. Some have the front wheels centered in the wheel well and others have the wheels offset forward. Also, some have caster that is on spec and others have it below spec. Has anyone considered that maybe the ones with the wheels offset forward have more caster than spec (with the lower control arm mounted more forward or the upper one mounted more rearward? Think about that and why I may have reduced it and still ended up with a nicely driving car.

Yes.
Also, the later cars usually have a better fit/finish and other fixes here and there.
I tell people that with less than 10k Ds produced, it is basically a glorified hand build prototype.

[82DMC12]

1) -

ps, one other thing. It is generally agreed that Deloreans were built with varying degrees of quality control. Some have the front wheels centered in the wheel well and others have the wheels offset forward. Also, some have caster that is on spec and others have it below spec. Has anyone considered that maybe the ones with the wheels offset forward have more caster than spec (with the lower control arm mounted more forward or the upper one mounted more rearward? Think about that and why I may have reduced it and still ended up with a nicely driving car.

LOL the variation in the "curb appeal" of the wheel being centered is due to the BODY VARIATION not the frame variation. I've never seen any credible person, vendor or otherwise, accuse the factory of frame variation, in fact you can EASILY replace the frame with any random frame from another DeLorean, no matter the year, and it will line up perfectly to your existing body. Never in the 25 years I've been a DeLorean owner has anyone claimed that a stock frame, in good condition, with stock front suspension, in good condition with good bushings cannot be aligned to the factory specs. If your caster was that far off, your suspension and/or frame is/was damaged. That's all there is to it.