Poll: Did your Delorean Have a Tool Kit In It When You Purchased It? What VIN?

[tjd]

Josh you have really blown this out of proportion and twisted my words. It is OK for one to disagree or agree to disagree.

I am upset with you because I come home from work (14 hours) to find multiple posts to my facebook by you about this subject in response to a commentary about an eBay auction in which I had made which was stated to the best of my knowledge as I understand it on my private facebook page. You then follow up with repeated impossible to answer questions that seem to be of interest only to you. I then express my displeasure with your trolling of my facebook with all these impossible questions that no one can answer for you, and when I do, I do it out of anger and frustration, if you would have looked before you blocked me you would see that long winded rant (that I spent 45 minutes writing in the limited time I had after work that I could have spent with my wife) that was directed toward you was removed within 20 minutes of being put up, as I also removed the rest of your pestering of me on the subject as well as any answers made by me that where directed toward you.

You then come onto DMCTalk and speak my side of the argument for me and naming me by name when doing so. You spoke for me (with exaggeration and out of context I might add) without my consent and I have a real problem with that.

I am sorry that my disagreement on the way DMCH promotes it's high end products and confuses the public into thinking time and time again that new DeLoreans are being built bothers you. My opinion is just one, and is no more powerful then any other. As an American within reason I do not feel that freedom of information is a problem. I also think it is relatively unreasonable of you to scrutinize and misrepresent my statements as I have with your own added take on them due to my lack of stature in the DeLorean community. I can only take that as a unwarranted personal attack and just like what you were doing on my facebook earlier you are just trolling to troll. If I disagree with what one person (or more) is saying I can accept that and move on without making it personal. I also take into account what I am hearing and who I am hearing it from and put it into perspective. Frankly if James Espey was able to do this last August we likely wouldn't be discussing this now.

Also to add to that if Stephen Wynne was able to apologize for (not just acknowledge and privately correct) the actions of his employee we wouldn't likely be having this discussion now, as I wouldn't feel so bitterly about the way I was publicly treated by the Vice President of DeLorean Motor Company (Houston) someone with far more stature and in a much larger position of power when relation to myself. I am one customer, James is the VP of the company. Do you get it?

DMCH is a very arrogant company that takes for granted it's customer base due to it's unique position in the market. It whores us (it's customer base) to do whatever it can to attract a few new elite customers and I find that disgusting and I resent them for it. A prime example of them taking their customer base for granted is the whole binnacle fiasco.

I wont apologize for it, and I resent your exaggerated public attack because you the almighty Josh Quellhorst happens to disagree. Who are you Josh? If you don't like what I have to say click ignore. Your having delusions of grandeur my "friend".

I'm also furious with you that you decide that you need to air this laundry out publicly. Be a man about it and at least pick up the phone if you have a disagreement with a friend, I just talked to you about this subject not two days ago over the phone and you didn't express any of this. You sure can talk the talk, why can't you walk the walk?


Note to moderator, Josh has made this personnel and public so please leave it as is, the way Josh wants it, for all to see.

[tjd]

My editing time expired before I was able to correct my posts. This

I am sorry that my disagreement on the way DMCH promotes it's high end products and confuses the public into thinking time and time again that new DeLoreans are being built bothers you. My opinion is just one, and is no more powerful then any other. As an American within reason I do not feel that freedom of information is a problem. I also think it is relatively unreasonable of you to scrutinize and misrepresent my statements as I have with your own added take on them due to my lack of stature in the DeLorean community. I can only take that as a unwarranted personal attack and just like what you were doing on my facebook earlier you are just trolling to troll. If I disagree with what one person (or more) is saying I can accept that and move on without making it personal. I also take into account what I am hearing and who I am hearing it from and put it into perspective. Frankly if James Espey was able to do this last August we likely wouldn't be discussing this now.

Is supposed to say this

I am sorry that my disagreement on the way DMCH promotes it's high end products and confuses the public into thinking time and time again that new DeLoreans are being built bothers you. My opinion is just one, and is no more powerful then any other. As an American within reason I do not feel that freedom of information is a problem. I also think it is relatively unreasonable of you to scrutinize and misrepresent my statements with your own added take on them due to my lack of stature in the DeLorean community. I can only take that as a unwarranted personal attack and just like what you were doing on my facebook earlier you are just trolling to troll. If I disagree with what one person (or more) is saying I can accept that and move on without making it personal. I also take into account what I am hearing and who I am hearing it from and put it into perspective. Frankly if James Espey was able to do this last August we likely wouldn't be discussing this now.

Josh in short you had no right to name me, then speak for me here without my knowledge or consent, then to follow that your Outing, twisting, misquoting and just plain exaggerating personal conversations. This is the root of my problem with you other then your expanding hat size.

The facebook stuff is now secondary to this much much larger problem.

Also before moving on I will clarify my position on Josh's claims

I put the poll up here because you stated as fact that no Deloreans arrived to customers with tool kits(hence they should not count at concourse), so I wanted to find out from actual owners, not rumors or "reliable sources", what better place than DMCTalk? I also posed two different viewpoints to each argument to find the correct answer to each one, which I received.

My problems is not that you try to satisfy your curiosity about the subject, my problem is your naming my name and your interpretation of my point of view as gospel, also doing so without my knowledge or consent. This was posted to a Facebook page that is and was set to private, not a news article written by a journalist. Your fact checking me and putting me under scrutiny like I am running for president, whic last I checked I am not running for any public office.

You are inaccurate on your facts, this is why I called you on them.
-You were unable to provide proof of the cost of toolkits but claimed they were $150 and at a "premium". I checked and found the actual answer from more than one DMC business owner was "$71.21 in 1993 @KAPAK, and last price was $74.77 at DMCH" , which I will accept as fact. You have since retracted your original statement.
-You said 5.75 point deduction on the concourse car without a toolkit and are incorrect. I checked and also asked a concourse judge and the correct answer is 3.25.
You did your math incorrectly and/or you jumped to conclusions, "almost 6 points!".
-You said there were thousands of toolkits left over and stockpiled. I asked a DMC owner and the answer was actually less than 100 when KAPAK sold the inventory to DMCH. You need to cross-check your "reliable source" better. You have since backed up and generalized your statement.

Again who are you Josh to put any of my statements under such scrutiny. Again I am not running for elected office. You are out of line, it would have been far more polite and friend like to offer your corrections to any information I had in error privately. I would have been interested as a friend with a common hoby to hear what you have to say. Not make a spectical of it on DMCTalk and naming me and speaking for me without my knowledge and consent and embarrassing me.

The point I am making is that you exaggerate your claims and are attacking Delorean people and businesses who support our community which I see as unfair and unacceptable.

If you don't like what I say ignore it, my statements about the Tool Kits and my opinions about their inclussion in the Concours manual is my criticism of a public character in the DeLorean world as he is the author of the manual as well as the Vice President of DMCH. You putting my personal statements on a private page up on a public message board is what is unfair and unacceptable.

You are hypocritical though because you still buy parts from DMC (that you accuse of price-gouging) and have stated surprise that they haven't "blacklisted" you.
You also are hypocritical because you falsely advertise and sight your claims just as you have accused DMC doing of their Deloreans.

I do not buy parts that I have accused them or price gouging. Infact I don't know if I have accused them of price gouging other then maybe the EV. But what do I know, it costs the same as similar Electric Cars. I accused them as acting like opportunists by taking advantage of James position writing the Concours manual.

I'd be surprised I haven't been blacklisted, based upon DMCH's reaction to my and others criticism, Not that I'd reasonably expect them to. They have reacted enough to take me off of their mailing list though.

We all love Deloreans and sharing our experiences and knowledge with others and for the most part it is positive and constructive. However, when you behave negatively with the intent to persuade others in your crusade it is reflected back to you.

I'm not trying to persuade anyone Josh, just stating my opinion. Last time I checked that's still legal. It is up to the individual reader to form their own opinion. And trust me everyone has one.

I may be speaking only for myself, but I have grown tired of you continually and routinely bashing DMC/James Espey and your negative attitude. You accused me of "trolling" on facebook, threatened to de-friend me, and questioned whether I worked for DMC, so I left you alone to say whatever you want there going forward.

That's your problem Josh, if you don't like what I have to say don't read it or listen to it.

The next time you attempt to assasinate someone's character, job, or a company that supports our hobby do your homework first and be truthful so you don't lose credit and trust from others like me. It would also help to seek resolution with those you have disagreements with if you want to continue to do business with them instead of complaining continuously which hasn't resolved any differences.

No one else but you takes what I say so seriously or scrutinizes it so thoroughly. Again I'm not running for president or other public office.

I have nothing more to say about the matter other then I apologize to those that don't want to read Josh and I having to air out some dirty laundry so publicly, but again that wasn't my choice. Was it Josh?

[Farrar]

if you competed in Delorean Concourse you had to have this tool kit or you would lose 5.75 points (3.25 points plus .5 point for each of the 5 tools) off of the 100 point checklist.

OH MY GOD!!!!! My life has no meaning now.

Farrar

[tjd]

*Note to moderators, I'd like to address the original post here a little bit after some personal reflection about Josh's actions as far as the original post and his continued posts in this thread as a whole and put some more perspective in this from my point of view, Josh certainly has made his. My previous post condensed into #32 was written in an anger stewed rage after Josh literally betrayed my trust (this man pretended to be my friend) and is not well balanced, I literally was just home from working 14 hours in a high stress job and I was mad as hell after reading his nonsense in post #29. I feel what is written below is more balanced and accurately communicates my point of view on the broader subject written with a clear head with out dwelling on the issue of Josh speaking on my behalf behind my back without me consent and his convenient twists of some of my words and playing himself up to DMCH.

Anyhow here goes...

Tim Dufrense and I are debating this question:

Poll: Did your Delorean Have a Tool Kit In It When You Purchased It? What VIN?

-Yes, it came with a tool kit when I bought it (tool kit came with car originally or previous owner purchased tool kit seperately and left it with the car)
-No, there is no tool kit in the jack storage area
-I purchased a tool kit separately from the car (please tell us approximately when you bought the tool kit and how much you paid for it)

Also, I am looking for documentation or verification by those of you who purchased tool kits. I am told by one source they were selling from DMCH for $150 a kit, and another source said they were selling for $70-$75 a kit.

Can any of you verify this? I would like the correct answer....

There was no debate about it Josh, I made a comment about an eBay auction on my facebook page. The point of my comment was primarily directed toward the points deduction for Concours cars not having this kit deemed by James Espey when in fact very few cars (evidently, I honestly believed none did) came with them. In other instances in the Councours manual there is a vin cut off for things that came in some (early) cars that where not carried over. This is not the case with the tool kit. At the time the manual was written DMCH sold the kits exclusively.

You are flat out lying about debating anything with me, you filled my facebook page with impossible questions that no one could answer unless they had a stack of catalogs in front of them, had access to inventory records at Kapac, DMC, and DMCH, and where actually employed by DeLorean back in 1981-82. I answered your questions to the best of my ability and to my knowledge without any clue that you were setting me up for public ridicule over here. You never offered your side of the debate until you came here to throw me under the bus without my knowledge.

My information was second hand when it comes to pricing, and that was all you were hung up on. That and point deductions that we interpret differently. You missed the entire point about James abusing his power at DMCH by writing the Concours manual to manipulate sales of an item no one wanted but DMCH was the sole stock holder of and since sold out of (according to their website).

Honestly Josh I just tried to give you an answer. Because I really don't care about the tool kit other then Mr Espey's bullshit manipulation of the Concours manual as it applies to it. It might not have been well researched, but let's be honest that is what you were counting on wasn't it?

I am not trying to tear down DMCH, I'm incapable of doing that. They have a parts monopoly on NOS parts, not to mention their brand and ability to advertise with it (I do question if they legally own it) if anyone's goal is to tear DMCH down it is futile. The only entity that can tear DMCH down is DMCH, and with some of their business decisions it wouldn't surprise me at all if they eventually succeed in that. In normal business circumstances I would not do business with DMCH (if I had a choice) due to my disagreement with their advertising practices as it pertains to "New-Build" cars and the Vice President of the companies internet bullying of me for speaking my mind on the subject. But they have me in a situation that I am forced to do business because there is no alternative in some cases. I do business indirect whenever possible and hold my nose when I have no other choice but to do business with them directly. If I had an alternative to DMCH that had NOS parts I'd go with that before I contributed any further to James Espey's paycheck. In reality with my public criticism All I'm trying to do is apply pressure on them to keep them honest, and I will say that in recent interviews Stephen Wynne has been very careful with his wording calling DeLoreans that DMCH has restored as re-manufactured cars in place of "New Builds" since the EV press hoopla. I'd like to think that myself and a few other people here that annoy you (that you do not have the courage to confront or have the common sense to just ignore) had something to do with that.

In closing I am disappointed Josh that you were not man enough to return my phone call yesterday. You take care of those many faces "friend".


To the moderators and fellow forum members my apologies again, I now return you to your regular scheduled programming. I don't have anything else to add or more importantly any more time to waste on Mr Quellhorst.

[Mike C.]

...so, did it come with a tool kit or not?

[DMC_PRIME]

I pretty much have a whole garage full of tools in my Delorean at all times. Does that count??