Torsion Bar Reinforcement Panel

[Stex]

I was hoping to get confirmation that the metal roof reinforcement panel has in fact separated from the fiberglass. I don’t have anything to compare it to, but it appears to have a considerable bow in the center. There are no noises and I don’t detect any movement between the two panels when the doors are opened and closed. The doors have new gas struts and do not rise to the full open position on their own and the torsion bars appear to have been adjusted before judging by the pencil marks on the ends of them. The torsion bars are also rubbing on the door hinges as well. 172191722017221

[WelmoedJ]

I was hoping to get confirmation that the metal roof reinforcement panel has in fact separated from the fiberglass. I don’t have anything to compare it to, but it appears to have a considerable bow in the center. There are no noises and I don’t detect any movement between the two panels when the doors are opened and closed. The doors have new gas struts and do not rise to the full open position on their own and the torsion bars appear to have been adjusted before judging by the pencil marks on the ends of them. The torsion bars are also rubbing on the door hinges as well.

From the photographs I can confirm that your roof section indeed has detached from the lower body part.
This means work!

You have to loosen the torsion bars firstly.
You also may have to remove the headliner.
Perhaps the rear window to get sufficient space to allow press down/clamping of the detached section and re-attaching (glueing) it to its original position.

[Stex]

One concern I do have is, the hex in the end of the passenger side torsion bar appears to be slightly distorted. My fear is that the bracket may not slide off the splines on the torsion bar easily. How much rotation is necessary to unload the tension on the torsion bar? Is it possible, considering the panel is lifted, that the tension could be relieved with the bracket still attached?

[WelmoedJ]

One concern I do have is, the hex in the end of the passenger side torsion bar appears to be slightly distorted. My fear is that the bracket may not slide off the splines on the torsion bar easily. How much rotation is necessary to unload the tension on the torsion bar? Is it possible, considering the panel is lifted, that the tension could be relieved with the bracket still attached?

Firstly, make sure you have the right Allen key.
It's not exactly 10 mm and IIRC you have to grind it down a bit to make a good fit.
Once you have the proper, tight fit it's time to proceed.

This is not a one man job; you will need someone to assist you (holding the lever/breaker bar in position while,you remove the bolts).
You'll need a breaker bar with a long enough arm so you have enough leverage to control the torsion bar, once you are going to remove the two bolts on each of the brackets.

If you don't keep enough counter force on the breaker bar while trying to slide the brackets off of the spline you could easily break the rear window with the end of a bracket).
I used my son, an converted Allen key and a breaker bar of some 2 feet in lenght.
This was sufficient equipment to remove the bolts, bracket and tension of the torsion bar.

Re-applying tension to the torsion bar is another and almost last step in the rebuilding process.

I wish you wisdom and luck.

[David T]

The Allen socket is 3/8", not metric. If it fits loosely it could be cracked. The anchor bracket slides off the splined end, you release the tension on the bar, and then the bar slides out. Mark it's position to the anchor bracket with a pencil before removing. Generally it takes about 90 degrees of rotation to release tension. There is no way to do this repair without releasing all of the power in both torsion bars. Also a good time to replace the outer door seals at the top of the doors if necessary. You use a 2 foot breaker bar AND a 5 foot piece of pipe slid over it. Use 1/2" drive stuff, 3/8" is too puny for this. If you don't have the support jig you have to remove the rear louvre. Be careful not to scratch the surface of the torsion bars or drop them or bend them.
David Teitelbaum

[WelmoedJ]

Thanks Dave, for your additional info.
Over here (Europe) I didn't have inch base tools.
So I had to "manufacture" one from an old metric Allen key.
This did the job.
The 2 feet breaker bar was also sufficient in my case.

Anyway, it's always good if someone else fills in the gaps in information.

And yes, afterwards I needed the jig to put the proper tension on the torsion bars.

[Ron]

$.02

If there is no bad rust (or other problems) on the other side or with the roof box, I would consider a different approach.
Remove the lift shocks, hold/support the doors opened as far possible, carefully remove the headliner to expose the location of wires and choose locations to drill for 2-4 hard bolts to pull it back down (use thin heads and large washers, the panel is relatively soft). Then adjust the tension if necessary, but there is good chance it will not be needed.

EDIT: I'd mark the hinges and remove the louvers to begin with...just not worth the hassles avoided.

[Ryan S.]

Here is an instruction on how to fix. I will be fixing mine this weekend with help from Jon and other D club members.
I haven't removed my T panel, yet but yours looks as bad as mine.

http://home.comcast.net/~bk-pollard/Torsion%20Bar%20Panel%20Reinforcement.pdf

[Ron]

I'm curious as to why the article calls for removing the lower engine cover???

[Stex]

Thanks for all of the advice/input. I was mainly concerned that the hex end of the torsion bar was slightly “mushroomed” out and that would hinder the removal of the torsion bar retaining plate. I do plan to use bolts to secure the metal reinforcement to the fiberglass as I feel it will be much more secure than gluing it back down. I spoke with Josh at DPI and feel much better about the entire process. He gave me a step by step understanding of the entire process and potential things to watch out for. Thanks again for the information!

[Ryan S.]

Stex,
Would you mind sharing what Josh told you? I will be doing this and want to make sure I don't screw it up.
Thanks
Ryan

[DMCMW Dave]

I'm curious as to why the article calls for removing the lower engine cover???

So don't drop tools on it.

[Ron]

So don't drop tools on it.Ah. We always used a piece of an old zorbmat...taped from the top of the glass down :wink:

[Elvis]

Why type everything again when it is there with pics:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?5804-Is-it-bad!-!-I-think-its-bad&p=82996#post82996

[David T]

In some cases you can have a lot of difficulty removing the anchor bracket off the splines. One of the reasons to use the pipe on the breaker bar so your assistant doesn't tire while you spend a LOT of time trying to pry the bracket off. By working it on and off, back and forth, I haven't found one I couldn't get but it can tax your patience. I use plenty of old towels to prevent damaging the fenders or the rear glass. Removing the louver does give you better access but it is more work. Do mark it's position so you don't have to spend a lot of time trying to get it adjusted again. I like the bolt method too, more positive than glue which eventually failed! I also did some cars where the anchor bolts were stripped and the bolt holes were stripped too. You never know what you are going to find when you do torsion bars, you need to be prepared and have all of your tools nearby so you can do it as quickly as possible or you will need a LOT of assistants! If you have to you can file the splines on the torsion bars a little to get the anchor bracket to slide on and off easily. Use the correct profile needle file.
David Teitelbaum

[Rich]

Thanks for all of the advice/input. I was mainly concerned that the hex end of the torsion bar was slightly “mushroomed” out and that would hinder the removal of the torsion bar retaining plate.

From the photos in the first post it doesn't look like there is any distortion on the open end of the splines on the right bar.

Even if the hex section is a bit rounded inside it should not mushroom the splines.

When it's time to back the brackets of the splines follow the advice already given. Some penetrating oil may help. Work it slightly side to side. A bit of prying on the bracket ears, gently alternating on each side against the roof box or even both sides at once, usually does the trick. It is not a press fit.

When you are done be sure to find some vinyl hose or similar material to place over whichever bar is rubbing its rear hinge. It's a known problem. Pushing the bar away from the hinge to add the vinyl is safe. Or just do it while the bar is off its bracket.

[Rich]

The doors have new gas struts and do not rise to the full open position on their own and the torsion bars appear to have been adjusted before judging by the pencil marks on the ends of them.

When you put it back together with your roof box repaired see if you have luck starting with the pencil marks aligned. That was probably the factory setting before the first (tighter) adjustment. The factory book says to match mark the ends before removing the bracket so you know where you were.

You may wish to make new marks to establish your current position.

One spline = 10 deg of torsion bar twist.