'82 DMC-12 assessment

[Rich_NYS]

New member here......my first post.

I'm planning to buy a DeLorean after becoming educated enough to make a well-informed decision, but I might have an opportunity for an '82 auto at a deep discount right now. I only have one pic from a friend who was driving by and I spoke to the owner last night. The car has been in storage since 2001 and had a tune up, brakes and window motors before going into storage. The car runs, but has [what he believes to be] an exhaust manifold gasket leak.

There are a few issues he mentioned: doors won't stay up, louver struts (broken?), headlights don't work unless on high-beam, rear speakers don't work, passenger window doesn't work, leather seats are "slightly" cracked, and the dash and/or binnacle is cracked.

Before storage it had the water pump & alternator replaced, window motors replaced, a tune-up, and pads/calipers/rotors replaced.


Any thoughts on what a low offer would be considering the info above? Also wondering what the cost of repairs would be -especially the exhaust manifold gasket.

Thanks for any input!

23124

[jawn101]

Welcome to the forum.

There's nowhere near enough information here to make any kind of a determination. Where are you located? It helps us to know because then a local owner can chime in and maybe come with you to check it out.

Some things you didn't mention:
- Was it run at all since stored?
- How was it stored? It is almost 99% certain that it was done incorrectly....
- Condition of frame? Looks like it was parked outside on soft ground, so there could be some nasty surprises down there

I do see significant eyebrows on the fascia, but that's about it. It looks straight but again, you only provided one angle....

Have you read this thread? It's very important for someone in your situation. VERY important. http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?371-Please-read-before-posting-%93I-want-a-cheap-DeLorean%94-or-%93Project-Car-Wanted%94-threads

[Rich_NYS]

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks!




Where are you located? It helps us to know because then a local owner can chime in and maybe come with you to check it out.

NYS....the car is near Albany.




Was it run at all since stored?

The owner said he ran it while stored, it came out of storage a few weeks ago.




Condition of frame? Looks like it was parked outside on soft ground, so there could be some nasty surprises down there.

I think it has only been parked there since leaving storage a few weeks ago. The owner mentioned the frame was blasted & repainted back when it was on the road....not sure what to make of that.




Have you read this thread? It's very important for someone in your situation. VERY important. http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?371-Please-read-before-posting-%93I-want-a-cheap-DeLorean%94-or-%93Project-Car-Wanted%94-threads

I just took a quick look, but I'll read it thoroughly now....thanks!

[Rich_NYS]

Referring to the post about how much to expect to pay, I'm thinking the car might be a bit above the $11k - $13k range, but I sense I can buy it in the $5k - $10k range


What will you get for your money? In most cases, you will find the following true:

- $5k - $10k: a project car that has been sitting forever, MAYBE it starts, more than likely it doesn’t. MAJOR updates to electrical, cooling, brake, fuel system have to be done.
- $11k - $13k: a project car that starts, moves. Can be made into a daily driver with some work. The list of MAJOR updates to electrical, cooling, brake, and fuel system may have been started.
- $14k - $19k: a project car that has had some work done, starts and runs, drives, but needs work. A lot of daily driver D’s fall into this category. Higher side of this category are project cars that need work, but all the big things such as the cooling system, fuel system, electrical system have been mostly sorted out and updated. Body should be in good condition, some blemishes or minor work can be expected. Car can be driven with confidence for the most part, but some things are still being sorted out.





I really had no intention of a project car, but if I can get the car for well below its value, pay for the repairs and still be within range, I think that's worth looking into. Ultiimately, I'd sell it and get a manual-shift. Every once in a while a great deal pops up on just about everything.....this might be one of those times. I realize there is very little info, but it's what I have so far...I'll be working on getting more.

I plan to see the car this weekend, but I was intending to go with money-in-hand on Saturday. Again, I'm very early in my education, but I'm thinking there's a "too good to pass up" price on anything that runs, and has the body intact with a decent interior. (e.g. <$10K for a car in the $14k - $19k range.)


Thanks again for the input....much appreciated!

[louielouie2000]

The condition you're describing, I'd guess $9k-$12k tops. If you think you could get it for less, try. The electrical issues you mentioned are concerning. Get the relay compartment (behind the passenger seat underneath the parcel shelf carpet) opened up & inspect it before you fork over any money. Look for melted fuses/fuse blocks, wires, relays, etc. I'd also drive the car some, just to make sure it stays running... who knows, the guy could have cranked the car up just to move it out of a building, then parked it again... sucking all that gummed up fuel into the system. The auto trannys on these cars are very fickle beasts... make sure the car shifts normally, too. Watch the temperature gague, make sure the car runs cool. The exhaust leak will make the car sound like an old school bus, by the way... & will sap some performance. See if you can find a local owner to go inspect the car with you... this vehicle has the potential to be a money pit.

[jawn101]

Referring to the post about how much to expect to pay, I'm thinking the car might be a bit above the $11k - $13k range, but I sense I can buy it in the $5k - $10k range







I really had no intention of a project car, but if I can get the car for well below its value, pay for the repairs and still be within range, I think that's worth looking into. Ultiimately, I'd sell it and get a manual-shift. Every once in a while a great deal pops up on just about everything.....this might be one of those times. I realize there is very little info, but it's what I have so far...I'll be working on getting more.

I plan to see the car this weekend, but I was intending to go with money-in-hand on Saturday. Again, I'm very early in my education, but I'm thinking there's a "too good to pass up" price on anything that runs, and has the body intact with a decent interior. (e.g. <$10K for a car in the $14k - $19k range.)


Thanks again for the input....much appreciated!

Based on what you said, I dunno if it counts as a restoration-started example - all those electrical gremlins indicate that the whole electrical system still needs an overhaul. That's a big job and can be expensive (not to mention time-consuming)

If the car was started and run infrequently over the past decade, you will probably have fuel issues to work out too. Another valuable link to check out. http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7844-Top-5-(or-10)-updates-fixes-every-owner-should-perform

See if any of that has been done to the car. If it hasn't, you're in for a long road and the price should reflect that fact. Just keep in mind that even a terribly stored, broken down, barely working DeLorean with tens of thousands of dollars worth of work to be done can (and often does) still look perfect on the outside.

[DavidProehl]

If you are paying less than $10,000 for a car that is drivable, then it might very well be a good/great deal. Sounds like some frame work was done, likely for a reason. Make sure the frame isn't falling apart or that the paint or whatever they used isn't hiding a lot of rust.

There are plenty of owners in NY, if you can find one to go out to look at it with you that would be ideal. They will know what to look for and might also be able to help estimate the costs of fixing what needs to be done.

Just be sure you go in with your eyes open. A "too good to be true" price usually is and could leave you more frustrated and angry at the car than anything else when things start to break you weren't planning on. You will go over budget on repairs, so be ready for it.

[Jonathan]

I'm planning to buy a DeLorean after becoming educated enough to make a well-informed decision...

Then do just as you've said. Learn now and buy later. Patience and knowledge is far more important with these cars than just a dollar amount.


Also wondering what the cost of repairs would be -especially the exhaust manifold gasket.

I had my exhaust manifold gaskets done a couple seasons ago. Parts kit was $100 from DMC. I had a mechanic do it as I chose to let someone with the right tools/life and expertise handle it. The advice I got from the community was budget 3-4 hours for the job and 1-2 extra hours for every stud you snap. I had this done together with a clean-up and reassembly of my entire ear axle, boots, grease, etc. and the total bill for labour and whatnot was about $900. I would guess $500 was the labour for the exhaust manifold gaskets (no studs snapped, but two spots had to be retapped from previous poor work).


doors won't stay up, louver struts (broken?)

If you are only replacing struts, it is something you can do yourself and for say $100 tops for a strut kit for all 6 on the car. If there is something more significant to why the doors won't stay up, like a snapped torsion bar or bracket problem, it will be more expensive.


headlights don't work unless on high-beam, rear speakers don't work, passenger window doesn't work, leather seats are "slightly" cracked, and the dash and/or binnacle is cracked.

Like others mentioned, too much guess work here. Surprises are not fun on DeLoreans. Opening Christmas presents in the morning as a kid, yes. Discovering why something is not working on your DeLorean, not so much.

A piece of advice I wished I listened to was to buy the best car you can find with the money you have available. You will read about the rule of $25k. A decent, running car will cost you $25k. Buy one for close to $25k and put maybe a thousand bucks or two into it. Buy one for $15k and put $10k or maybe $15k into it. Buy one for $5k or $10k and you might put $40k into it. Put more attention on how well it was stored and not whether it runs barely. There are some easy things on the car to fix if it was simply why the car won't start or run. If your frame is Swiss cheese or the fuse and relay area has a lot of creativity and melting going on in it, it will get expensive and frustrating. I know a friend or two who got to choose between his wife/family or the car after she put up with one of these cars out in the garage for a few years. If you say you aren't ready for a project, then stick with that assessment as it was likely accurate.

Headligghts could be a fuse problem, wiring short or mistake, can't say really. Rear speakers could be unplugged back there behind the panels, could be unplugged at the deck behind the centre console, the output on the deck could be shot or the speakers might not even still be in there. Assume the worst or most expensive way to correct these things and keep adding that up. If it is easier, like just plugging something back in, then it's a bonus. You may find some of these, but it won't be the majority.

Window motor could be shot, or disconnected, or the fuse/wiring, off it's track, switch could be the problem only. Seats and leather isn't terribly difficult, binnacles are more expensive and dashes are somewhere in between.


Before storage it had the water pump & alternator replaced, window motors replaced, a tune-up, and pads/calipers/rotors replaced.

If it has been stored for 12 years, expect to need to rebuild the brakes. Pads, calipers, master cylinder, fluid, etc. It's not terribly difficult or expensive, but don't assume the rebuild job from 2001 is still good to go.

Folks say to add $1,000 for every year the car was stored to bring it back. Between parts, labour, yours or someone else's, $12,000 of work would be best case scenario I would guess.


I really had no intention of a project car, but if I can get the car for well below its value, pay for the repairs and still be within range, I think that's worth looking into. Ultiimately, I'd sell it and get a manual-shift. Every once in a while a great deal pops up on just about everything.....this might be one of those times. I realize there is very little info, but it's what I have so far...I'll be working on getting more.

I plan to see the car this weekend, but I was intending to go with money-in-hand on Saturday. Again, I'm very early in my education, but I'm thinking there's a "too good to pass up" price on anything that runs, and has the body intact with a decent interior. (e.g. <$10K for a car in the $14k - $19k range.)

Again, see above. Patience and learn first. If you don't want a project, don't buy one. It is hard to know what you are getting into ahead of time until it is too late. The too good to be true is often just that. I heard once someone say about stuff in life "that they missed the boat, or my train hasn't come in yet". Well, maybe it just wasn't your train. Don't be afraid to pass this one up. Sometimes you have to go with what the world around you is offering. This might be someone else's train and yours is still on its way.


The condition you're describing, I'd guess $9k-$12k tops. If you think you could get it for less, try. The electrical issues you mentioned are concerning. Get the relay compartment (behind the passenger seat underneath the parcel shelf carpet) opened up & inspect it before you fork over any money. Look for melted fuses/fuse blocks, wires, relays, etc. I'd also drive the car some, just to make sure it stays running... who knows, the guy could have cranked the car up just to move it out of a building, then parked it again... sucking all that gummed up fuel into the system. The auto trannys on these cars are very fickle beasts... make sure the car shifts normally, too. Watch the temperature gague, make sure the car runs cool. The exhaust leak will make the car sound like an old school bus, by the way... & will sap some performance. See if you can find a local owner to go inspect the car with you... this vehicle has the potential to be a money pit.

Louie is right here. Try to answer/address/review these things here. I have an auto trans and while yes they are fickle beasts, once I understood why mine wasn't doing what I needed it to, it was about a $250 part and a couple hours labour to install. They have a shift computer that is known to have issues over time. Mine was no exception and I replaced it with a rebuilt one and never looked back. Caution though if an auto trans was continued to be driven on a bad shift computer governor, it can start to wear out parts and gears much more difficult to remedy than the circuit boards. I got lucky you could say that mine was only the electronics. Again, learn and observe first. Leave the cash at home.


If you are paying less than $10,000 for a car that is drivable, then it might very well be a good/great deal. Sounds like some frame work was done, likely for a reason. Make sure the frame isn't falling apart or that the paint or whatever they used isn't hiding a lot of rust.

Arguably the most important. Ensure the frame is okay. It too can be repaired or welded or replaced, but your project car just entered a new territory if that is the case.


Just be sure you go in with your eyes open. A "too good to be true" price usually is and could leave you more frustrated and angry at the car than anything else when things start to break you weren't planning on. You will go over budget on repairs, so be ready for it.

If you only read one suggestion, make it this one. Keep an open mind and have patience. And please don't put any value into whether the owner throws in a 'Save the Clock Tower" flyer :) Good luck.

[David T]

What you are describing is the typical condition of a non-runner. It will need everything including some of the things previously done. In it's present condition it is worth much less than $10,000. What matters most is the condition of the S/S panels, the frame, the interior, glass, and if it is complete. Expect to rebuild all of the systems during which time you will correct any problems you find. Also figure tires, battery, all fluids and filters, struts, door seals, etc. Make sure the Title is clean, the numbers match up and the mileage is correct.

[Rich_NYS]

Excellent responses...thanks!

From the input I have so far, it seems the best course will be to go take a good close look at the car -specifically the relay compartment & underneath. I'll take pics, digest & share the info and figure out if it's worth an offer. I'm very early in the education process, but I'll get there. I sense the owner has no sentimental attachment to the car and isn't passionate about DeLoreans in general. It also sounds like his wife wants it gone. I think he'll accept a low-
ball offer.




Surprises are not fun on DeLoreans. Opening Christmas presents in the morning as a kid, yes. Discovering why something is not working on your DeLorean, not so much.

Hahaha! -I love it......you should trademark that one!




A piece of advice I wished I listened to was to buy the best car you can find with the money you have available. You will read about the rule of $25k.

This is the direction I've been moving in until yesterday when a friend sent me a pic of this one. I'll be back on that train of thought if this '82 turns out to be a bad situation to get into. -Just don't want to pass on a great deal (i.e. every Kiss pinball machine is worth at least $300 if it's in one piece 'cause the glass costs more than that.)

[Rich_NYS]

Make sure the Title is clean, the numbers match up and the mileage is correct.

Thanks David.....match the VIN to the title, right (or is the VIN in multiple places I should check to match?) Newbie question: clean title is a title without leins, right?

[Rich_NYS]

Thank you everyone for the knowledge you're sharing....I very much appreciate the help with this!

[LEVY]

Thanks David.....match the VIN to the title, right (or is the VIN in multiple places I should check to match?) Newbie question: clean title is a title without leins, right?

Yes, David meant title on hand and no liens on the title. No to worry about mileage, on this cars there is no way to check!

If ownre can not provide you a title because it was lost, no to worry, there are many ways to obtain one, as long as price is right and vehicle is not reported as stolen/salvage etc.

LEVY

[David T]

Yes, David meant title on hand and no liens on the title. No to worry about mileage, on this cars there is no way to check!

If ownre can not provide you a title because it was lost, no to worry, there are many ways to obtain one, as long as price is right and vehicle is not reported as stolen/salvage etc.

LEVY

What I mean by a "clean" Title is that it is the correct one for the car (the vin #'s match) the owner has not marked it up or signed it yet, there is no Lien (or if there is, it has been paid off and the owner has proof) it does NOT say Salvage on it, and the mileage can be matched up, ie, you can make sense of the mileage in that the Title does not have a higher # than what is on the car's odometer. If the recorded owner is deceased the current owner has the authority to sign the Title and sell the car. Included with the car you want to get 2 sets of car keys (2 for the single key system, 4 for the 2 key system and if a locking gas cap), the Owner's manual and whatever else goes along with the car such as accessories, cover, tools, parts, etc. The car should have a spare tire, lug wrench, jack handle, jack and bag. Anything you don't get will cost you so be sure to get everything you can. A lost Title or one that is messed up IS a big deal or at least it can be. If you are buying the car you are entitled to getting a good Title. Once you give the seller cash they will have NO obligation to help you in any way. Without a good Title you cannot register the car or drive it on public roads. If it turns out the car was ever reported stolen they will take the car away from you. All you can do is sue the person you bought it from. Good Luck with that!

[Rich_NYS]

-Just talked to a friend who will be nearby and can take pics of the car for me....saves me a 2.5 hour drive! I hope to post pics within a day or two.

I don't even own a DeLorean yet and I'm already having fun...

[Jonathan]

Thank you everyone for the knowledge you're sharing....I very much appreciate the help with this!


I don't even own a DeLorean yet and I'm already having fun...

For sure. There is lots of help to go around and it seems time and time again, the DeLorean community proves that they are very happy to share it with others.

Keep that "having fun" idea in mind throughout. That's what all of this is really about for most of us. If it's no longer fun for you, then you know to take a break, either temporarily or entirely. Much of the advice the guys are sharing with you here will help you keep having fun with this hobby. These cars can destroy you if your expectations aren't in line with your reality. Spend the time to learn and make an informed decision. I wasn't kidding about the surprises. Guys that don't own their cars anymore often got to that point because of not knowing what they were getting into.

Thanks for the trademark idea... lol!! You can use it for $1, haha :)

[LEVY]

-Just talked to a friend who will be nearby and can take pics of the car for me....saves me a 2.5 hour drive! I hope to post pics within a day or two.

I don't even own a DeLorean yet and I'm already having fun...

Just keep in mind, if "your friend" likes the car, and he is able to negotiate a very good price, and have the money, he might forget friendship and may buy it for himself.

That happened here on this forum before! The buyer even wrote some sarcastic comments to the guy who wanted to buy it at the first place. 2.5 hr. drive is nothing, you still have to drive to see it. What if he knows nothing about Deloreans and tell you is not worth the asking price? Are you going to take his word? You can ask the current owner for pictures too.

Hope you buy your dream car soon!

LEVY

[louielouie2000]

What I mean by a "clean" Title is that it is the correct one for the car (the vin #'s match) the owner has not marked it up or signed it yet, there is no Lien (or if there is, it has been paid off and the owner has proof) it does NOT say Salvage on it, and the mileage can be matched up, ie, you can make sense of the mileage in that the Title does not have a higher # than what is on the car's odometer. If the recorded owner is deceased the current owner has the authority to sign the Title and sell the car. Included with the car you want to get 2 sets of car keys (2 for the single key system, 4 for the 2 key system and if a locking gas cap), the Owner's manual and whatever else goes along with the car such as accessories, cover, tools, parts, etc. The car should have a spare tire, lug wrench, jack handle, jack and bag. Anything you don't get will cost you so be sure to get everything you can. A lost Title or one that is messed up IS a big deal or at least it can be. If you are buying the car you are entitled to getting a good Title. Once you give the seller cash they will have NO obligation to help you in any way. Without a good Title you cannot register the car or drive it on public roads. If it turns out the car was ever reported stolen they will take the car away from you. All you can do is sue the person you bought it from. Good Luck with that!

A clean title can also refer to a clean vehicle history... ie: if the car has been in accidents, been salvaged, flooded, was ever a Lease/Rental car, had any major repairs or recalls performed, etc. You can try running the VIN on Autocheck or Carfax, but most DeLoreans have been off the road since those services started documenting VINs, so on many DeLoreans, you won't get any information.

[NightFlyer]

-Just talked to a friend who will be nearby and can take pics of the car for me....saves me a 2.5 hour drive! I hope to post pics within a day or two.

This is something I don't get at all. If you're serious about doing it, then why is making the trip to see the car in persona, even multiple times, so very difficult? Even at a discounted price, we're still talking serious money here - aren't we? And yet it's not worth a few gallons of gas and a few hours of your time?

COME ON!

When I purchased my car, I made a 1,200 mile round trip twice (two whole days and 2,400 miles of driving) - once to scout several cars along a carefully planned/determined route, and once to purchase/pick-up my car. And that was only after visiting several other area cars (within a 300 mile radius) that I previously rejected. All together, I probably expended 3,500 miles and the requisite time before finally purchasing #1798.

If it's too much of a hassle to actually visit the car a couple times before deciding whether or not to purchase, then my honest advice is that a DeLorean is not for you - your heart will never be in it. A DeLorean is an enthusiast's car. It's not a new car and will never be like a new car, no matter how nice of a car you may have. And an enthusiast would not be making a deal out of a 2.5 hour drive. Not trying to discourage you, I'm just trying to make a point here.

If the frame was previously messed with, that says that a PO did a lot of messing with this car. If that PO, or his hires, didn't really know what they were doing, it could be a disaster. Or maybe they did know what they were doing and everything is just fine. You either really need to know what you're looking at or have someone go with you that does in order to accurately assess the value.

[Bill6298]

I can speak from experience about making all of the rookie mistakes. I bought vin 6298 in late 2002 and made all of the usual mistakes. However, I had one thing in my favor: a "known" previous owner. There was quite a bit of history available for my car on the DML at the time.

My top mistakes:

1. Underestimating how much money it would take to keep the car going and finish the projects not tackled by the PO. Ask yourself: Do you have enough disposable income to keep things going? I would consider how much margin you have to address other life events including losing or changing jobs. If you run out of money, things can get exponentially worse.

2. Not having enough DeLorean knowledge to make a well informed buying decision. Again, I got lucky with a honest and competent previous owner but I did not understand what it would take to fix the things he fully disclosed as problems.

These two issues led to the ultimate bad situation for me: storage. Don't think you can store the car while you solve your money (or time/family/employment) problem and pick right back up where you left off. Every year will create new costs on top of the original cost. It's easy to double or triple the amount of money needed to move forward.

I recommend:

- Learn everything in James' buying guide book (http://store.delorean.com/p-10550-the-illustrated-buyers-guide-to-delorean-automobiles.aspx).
- Read forum posts on a regular basis to make sure you enjoy staying engaged
- Research and price common procedures for different levels of a restoration

This may not apply to your specific situation but I thought I'd share a real world story.

Good luck.

Bill

[louielouie2000]

This is something I don't get at all. If you're serious about doing it, then why is making the trip to see the car in persona, even multiple times, so very difficult? Even at a discounted price, we're still talking serious money here - aren't we? And yet it's not worth a few gallons of gas and a few hours of your time?

COME ON!

When I purchased my car, I made a 1,200 mile round trip twice (two whole days and 2,400 miles of driving) - once to scout several cars along a carefully planned/determined route, and once to purchase/pick-up my car. And that was only after visiting several other area cars (within a 300 mile radius) that I previously rejected. All together, I probably expended 3,500 miles and the requisite time before finally purchasing #1798.

If it's too much of a hassle to actually visit the car a couple times before deciding whether or not to purchase, then my honest advice is that a DeLorean is not for you - your heart will never be in it. A DeLorean is an enthusiast's car. It's not a new car and will never be like a new car, no matter how nice of a car you may have. And an enthusiast would not be making a deal out of a 2.5 hour drive. Not trying to discourage you, I'm just trying to make a point here.

If the frame was previously messed with, that says that a PO did a lot of messing with this car. If that PO, or his hires, didn't really know what they were doing, it could be a disaster. Or maybe they did know what they were doing and everything is just fine. You either really need to know what you're looking at or have someone go with you that does in order to accurately assess the value.

Your opinion here is incredibly subjective- everyone approaches big purchases differently. I am a HUGE enthusiast... I started saving money to buy a DeLorean when I was 11 years old. By the time I graduated high school, I began to look around for one to buy. First, I made friends in the DeLorean community, and attended several meets. I probably looked at a dozen perspective cars. The first one I ended up buying was 6 hours away... I drove down & tested out the car, and returned the next weekend with the cash to buy it.

In retrospect, even after looking at a dozen DeLoreans, I could have found a better car for my money. So when it was time to replace my first DeLorean, I was far more persnickety. The seller of my second DeLorean insisted on me taking the car for 3 days and traveling to a DeLorean meet several hours away I had planned on attending. Even though I fell in love with that DeLorean, I didn't immediately purchase it. The memory of my first car was still fresh, so I brought in my parents (who have always bought & sold classic cars & motorcycles) for their opinions. I probably visited the car a third time before I purchased it. There are some things you just want to get right.

DeLorean ownership can be a bit like marriage... it's a big commitment. You want to make sure you settle down with the right car for YOU. For instance, the OP wasn't sure he wanted a project car or an automatic. This one is both. He might regret being pressured into buying this car down the road. Even if he buys it cheaply, there's no guarantee he can unload the car for what he has in it once he gets it roadable. I've seen owner after owner sour to the cars after they bought examples that drained their wallets & patience. They were all enthusiasts, but they all had their breaking points, too. Just some things to think about. Being an owner & enthusiast is absolutely different for every person out there.

[DMCH James]

(snip)
I recommend:

- Learn everything in James' buying guide book (http://store.delorean.com/p-10550-the-illustrated-buyers-guide-to-delorean-automobiles.aspx).
- Read forum posts on a regular basis to make sure you enjoy staying engaged
- Research and price common procedures for different levels of a restoration

This may not apply to your specific situation but I thought I'd share a real world story.

Good luck.

Bill


Thanks for mentioning this, Bill - I'm always surprised that people are willing to spend ten(s) of thousands on a car based on an inexperienced third-party inspection and some photos. We see lots of cars bought that way come in to DMC and they almost invariably are cars that were overpriced.

I wrote this book over 7 or 8 years off based on my experiences buying and selling DeLorean cars - about 200 in the last 18 year. It was created to help people know what to look for and what to look out for - but it's part of a multi-step process that Bill also mentioned. I would love to be able to spend hours on the phone with any of the number of callers I speak to who want to know "what to look for" when evaluating a DeLorean. Even if I had the time to do so, it would only scratch the surface and you wouldn't retain a fraction of the information I would download on you. The book, with 120 pages and more than 200 color photos and illustrations, lays it all out for you.

Lots of other good comments here, as well - and in the end, however, a detailed personal inspection by a prospective buyer (after they know exactly what to look for) is the only way to buy a DeLorean. There are far too many "gotcha" things that can turn a "great deal" into seemingly bottomless money pit faster than you can write a check.

Final plug - the book (The Illustrated Buyer's Guide to DeLorean Automobiles (http://www.deloreanguide.com) - free PDF preview available on the site) is also available on Amazon, Ebay and most of the DMC dealers have it in stock, as well.

[Bill6298]

Final plug - the book (The Illustrated Buyer's Guide to DeLorean Automobiles (http://www.deloreanguide.com) - free PDF preview available on the site) is also available on Amazon, Ebay and most of the DMC dealers have it in stock, as well.

You can easily read the book in one sitting. This helps makes the re-read or skimming hassle free.

FWIW, I don't mean to be buzzkill to the OP. I can honestly say it was a lot of fun to jump in head first and pull the trigger. :-)

After re-reading the post, I would try to ask subtle questions to find out if the owner started this car up with the original gas after so many years. He may not even know the damage this can cause. Try to get him to walk through the entire storage process from A to Z. Let him tell the story without any probing. Find out why it was stored. If it was stored drivable and was driven periodically, that would be a plus. If fluids were changed out periodically, even better. Some folks will be really proud of non-standard customizations and repairs. Non-standard is only as good as the PO's abilities or luck. Assess the quality of the car and the previous owner's track record with the car.

[Rich_NYS]

This is something I don't get at all. If you're serious about doing it, then why is making the trip to see the car in persona, even multiple times, so very difficult? Even at a discounted price, we're still talking serious money here - aren't we? And yet it's not worth a few gallons of gas and a few hours of your time?

COME ON!

Fair point, here's the explanation:

I was planning two trips; one for a test drive and take pics to share on this post, then a 2nd trip to make an offer & load the car on a trailer. If I felt capable enough, I'd do it in one trip. I'm new at this so my approach is 1)get info, ask for input 2)make a decision. I really do value the help & input I've received here. If I knew a DeLorean owner I'd absolutely take them with me.

Since my friend will be passing by there tomorrow, I see no harm in getting the pics in advance of the trip....seems like good intel to have. If it looks like a worthwhile find, I'll be there on Saturday (instead of next weekend) to see it in person.

I absolutely plan on seeing this car in person and driving it....

I'll be at the DCS (with/without a car,) 10 hour drive 'cause I really do have a genuine interest, always have.....but now I can afford it.

[Rich_NYS]

I'm starting to appear a bit clumsy in my approach, so I'd like to clarify: my original approach is to learn & research over the winter, then shop in the $20K - $25K range for a nice manual-shift model in the Spring/Summer. I registered on this site, been reading posts (and now the IGBDA,) and planning a trip to the DCS.

Then someone happened upon this car yesterday and it seems like it could be a good deal, so I'm just taking a slight detour 'cause I'm not one to overlook an opportunity.

If I can get anything for <50% of what it's worth, I'll buy it. I floated this out there for help in assessing the situation and I very much appreciate everyone's input. I'll finish the .pdf book tonite, will continue to learn, and soon enough will be competent enough to know what I'm doing.

If the car isn't a smoking hot deal, I'll pass....no biggie. If I see any 1oz pure silver boullion for $10 each, I'll buy those too. :smile:

[Rich_NYS]

I recommend:

- Learn everything in James' buying guide book (http://store.delorean.com/p-10550-the-illustrated-buyers-guide-to-delorean-automobiles.aspx).
- Read forum posts on a regular basis to make sure you enjoy staying engaged
- Research and price common procedures for different levels of a restoration

This may not apply to your specific situation but I thought I'd share a real world story.

Good luck.

Bill

Good advice....thanks!

[NightFlyer]

My little rant wasn't wholly directed at you - sorry if I came off like an ass.

It's just that all too often, both here and on DMCToday.com, and for some reason or another fairly recently, there have been quite a few people that show up, say how excited they are about wanting a car, and then act like it's too much to travel more than 10 minutes away from their residence to look at a prospective car. I honestly don't get/understand that attitude, but as Louie said above:

"I've seen owner after owner sour to the cars after they bought examples that drained their wallets & patience."

I believe that the lack of patience/commitment to the car is what seals the fate of such owners/cars (in addition to a lack of funds / inability to do your own work on the car), and making a deal out of a trip to look at a prospective car, in my mind anyway, is indicative of the lack of such. And it's not just with DeLoreans - the same applies to any classic/vintage/exotic car.

I don't believe that to be you though, as you've stated that you've grown up around cars.

Also - it doesn't take $20k-$25k to find a great car. If you're patient, are willing to shop around (travel), and truly committed, you should be able to find a great car for $16k-$19k. I paid $18k for mine, and it's a collector's grade concours example that I've driven cross country.

The car you're presently looking at could be a great buy, and not as large of a 'project' as others are making it out to be. Any classic/vintage/exotic/old car will require an on-going expense in keeping it maintained and roadable, but usually if the car runs and drives normally, the remaining 'essentials' tend to be minimal and manageable. As for the rest (cosmetics), it all depends on how nice you want to take it. If the frame has been previously messed with, then it's more likely than not that other things on the car have also been messed with. However, the headlights, lighter, and windows don't necessarily mean that the electrical has been hacked, as we've already covered the more than probable causes of those issues in detail (most of which can be easily confirmed one way or the other before you even decide whether or not to purchase).

A test drive (a good long test drive at various speeds so everything gets up to temp), photos, and a video of the engine idling will get you a fairly accurate assessment.

Best of luck and have fun checking this car out! :thumbup:

[topcop66]

You may also want to purchase a copy of James Espey's book..."The Illustrated Buyers Guide to Deloreans". Full of a lot of useful information. As stated above....don't jump on the first one you come across, no matter how badly you want one! Took me over 20 years, between finding the money and the "right car". You'll know it when you see it.
LINYDC.........Long Island New York Delorean Club has many knowledgeable members who I'm Sure would be willing to assist you and answer any questions you might have.

[Doogie]

If you can still get to your friend today before he snaps pics, have him take LOTS of pics under the car. Specifically, where the frame goes "under the engine" (The cradle) just behind the driveshafts/axles. Take as many as he can from all angles. Also, up front, the "flat area" under the very front of the car, just behind the radiator. Gets lots of pics here. These are the two spots that rust first.

Ask him to open the doors (if allowed?) and check to see if the Torsion bars are intact (Long silver round bar running from front to back just under the door hinges. If the torsion bars are broken, those are big big $$$ but more than likely the struts are just weak (shock absorber looking things attached to the rear of the doors).

Pics of the engine help of course. Pics of the interior too are always nice.

When I got my car out of it's 25 years sleep I spent 4 days taking pics and loading them up here for advice (it was a family car so I wasn't racing against another buyer, I had time). The advice I got here was priceless.

Doogie

[Rich_NYS]

If you can still get to your friend today before he snaps pics, have him take LOTS of pics under the car. Doogie

I told him the pics under the car are most important and to take as many as he's able.



Final plug - the book (The Illustrated Buyer's Guide to DeLorean Automobiles (http://www.deloreanguide.com) - free PDF preview available on the site) is also available on Amazon, Ebay and most of the DMC dealers have it in stock, as well.


You may also want to purchase a copy of James Espey's book..."The Illustrated Buyers Guide to Deloreans".

I read the .pdf sample last night and ordered the book today...looks like a valuable resource.




My little rant wasn't wholly directed at you - sorry if I came off like an ass.

I don't take it that way....fire away -lol! It's all constructive and I've learned a boatload in the past two days, thanks!



Best of luck and have fun checking this car out! :thumbup:

Thanks man!

[David T]

Just because you have the opportunity to see a Delorean for sale nearby is no reason to buy it. You may be able to find a better deal by looking further. I would say to go look at the car only because it is close and every car you see will teach you something. Before committing to it you need to have someone who knows what to look for help you. They can help you save money by being able to negotiate better or maybe save you from buying a disaster and overpaying for it. There are enough Deloreans for sale that you do not have to buy the first one you find. Keep looking and you can almost always do better. Unless you have a high skill level, a place to work, and a lot of time and money, do NOT buy a non-runner. What you may get as a bargain will not look like one after you spend a lot of time and money on it and for the same money you could have bought one in much better shape. We had a member a while back build one that he bought in boxes. It never pays to do that, especially your first one. Find one that runs and the best advice is to always buy the best one you can afford. The Rule of $25K can be as much as $30K or more especially if you don't do a lot of the work yourself. Since that rule was created the price of parts and labor has increased. Hidden in that rule is the fact that if you buy one for $10K and fix it up (spending 15K on it) it can take months or longer, especially if you run out of money during the process.

[Rich_NYS]

My friend stopped today to take pics, but there was a cover over the car, the owner covers it when the weather isn't nice. I spoke to him tonite and he gave permission for the cover to be removed for pics if he isn't at home.

I got a little more info about the frame, condition, and storage of the car:

-The owner said the paint on the frame was beginning to flake, so he had it blasted & painted to avoid future trouble. The car wasn't disassembled.
-The car starts & drives
-Heat and A/C works.
-It was stored in his uncle's garage until a few weeks ago when he drove it onto a trailer & transported it to his house. It has had a few test-drives so far.
-He said there's a small wrinkle in the L. Front fender.....not sure if I'm seeing it in the pic I posted.
-He started it while in storage; sometimes once a week, sometimes once a month.
-I just learned he had the windows tinted with some kinda mirror/copper color.

I'll be taking a look at the car the next time the owner is available on a weekend (maybe next Sunday.) In the meantime, my friend will take pics and I'll post.

This week I'll have the IBGDA and will finish reading it before the weekend.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

[jawn101]

My friend stopped today to take pics, but there was a cover over the car, the owner covers it when the weather isn't nice. I spoke to him tonite and he gave permission for the cover to be removed for pics if he isn't at home.

I got a little more info about the frame, condition, and storage of the car:

-The owner said the paint on the frame was beginning to flake, so he had it blasted & painted to avoid future trouble. The car wasn't disassembled.
-The car starts & drives
-Heat and A/C works.
-It was stored in his uncle's garage until a few weeks ago when he drove it onto a trailer & transported it to his house. It has had a few test-drives so far.
-He said there's a small wrinkle in the L. Front fender.....not sure if I'm seeing it in the pic I posted.
-He started it while in storage; sometimes once a week, sometimes once a month.
-I just learned he had the windows tinted with some kinda mirror/copper color.

I'll be taking a look at the car the next time the owner is available on a weekend (maybe next Sunday.) In the meantime, my friend will take pics and I'll post.

This week I'll have the IBGDA and will finish reading it before the weekend.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Blasting and painting the frame for flaking epoxy without removing the body would be cause for concern. That can't have been a very thorough job.

A wrinkled LFF is also something that should give you pause. Replacing or repairing that is going to be quite expensive.

[David T]

My friend stopped today to take pics, but there was a cover over the car, the owner covers it when the weather isn't nice. I spoke to him tonite and he gave permission for the cover to be removed for pics if he isn't at home.

I got a little more info about the frame, condition, and storage of the car:

-The owner said the paint on the frame was beginning to flake, so he had it blasted & painted to avoid future trouble. The car wasn't disassembled.
-The car starts & drives
-Heat and A/C works.
-It was stored in his uncle's garage until a few weeks ago when he drove it onto a trailer & transported it to his house. It has had a few test-drives so far.
-He said there's a small wrinkle in the L. Front fender.....not sure if I'm seeing it in the pic I posted.
-He started it while in storage; sometimes once a week, sometimes once a month.
-I just learned he had the windows tinted with some kinda mirror/copper color.

I'll be taking a look at the car the next time the owner is available on a weekend (maybe next Sunday.) In the meantime, my friend will take pics and I'll post.

This week I'll have the IBGDA and will finish reading it before the weekend.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Now that we know it runs that changes the picture. Now you can actually drive it and see what works and what doesn't. Nothing I have heard so far is a deal-stopper but everything must be taken into account as to what it can cost to fix (for instance any damaged S/S panels). This is all factored in to assess a value to the car when you make an offer. The LFF can be removed and sent out for repair. It may not be all that expensive. The shipping and insurance may cost more than the actual repair!

[Rich_NYS]

Now that we know it runs that changes the picture. Now you can actually drive it and see what works and what doesn't. Nothing I have heard so far is a deal-stopper but everything must be taken into account as to what it can cost to fix (for instance any damaged S/S panels). This is all factored in to assess a value to the car when you make an offer. The LFF can be removed and sent out for repair. It may not be all that expensive. The shipping and insurance may cost more than the actual repair!


Thanks David, I'm going to take a test drive the next time the owner is available, probably next week or the week after. No matter the outlook, I'll go look at it anyway so I can at least learn more about what to look for. I expect to receive the IBGDA this week so I'll be able to apply some of what I learn there also.

[Jonathan]

Here's the pics my friend took yesterday...

Any thoughts?

Yes. Keep the exact location of this car to yourself until you have decided to purchase it or not. There are not quite enough pictures to say conclusively, but this car appears to be in far better shape than what was originally being discussed.

Not saying someone is going to come along and buy it out from under you, but I wouldn't take any chances. Call it being cautiously pessimistic.

...can't quite make out what the decal is on the passenger window, but if it is only on the drop glass part and not something that peels off, you can replace that piece of glass relatively easy. Currently $156 NOS.

http://store.delorean.com/p-7065-drop-glass-rh.aspx

[DavidProehl]

Yes. Keep the exact location of this car to yourself until you have decided to purchase it or not. There are not quite enough pictures to say conclusively, but this car appears to be in far better shape than what was originally being discussed.

Not saying someone is going to come along and buy it out from under you, but I wouldn't take any chances. Call it being cautiously pessimistic.

...can't quite make out what the decal is on the passenger window, but if it is only on the drop glass part and not something that peels off, you can replace that piece of glass relatively easy. Currently $156 NOS.

http://store.delorean.com/p-7065-drop-glass-rh.aspx

Agreed. I was expecting a very rough frame, and while not perfect, given that it drives I'd up my original estimate to $10k-$12 range. The fender isn't so bad, we've seen worse on this forum get fixed. Just make sure you have a DMC shop do the work. Still plan on a lot of surprises with this car and a good chunk of reserve cash for those surprises (at least $10k), but this is far better than I was expecting. It's definitely a project car, but has solid potential.

[Jimmyvonviggle]

Yes. Keep the exact location of this car to yourself until you have decided to purchase it or not. There are not quite enough pictures to say conclusively, but this car appears to be in far better shape than what was originally being discussed.

Not saying someone is going to come along and buy it out from under you, but I wouldn't take any chances. Call it being cautiously pessimistic.

...can't quite make out what the decal is on the passenger window, but if it is only on the drop glass part and not something that peels off, you can replace that piece of glass relatively easy. Currently $156 NOS.

http://store.delorean.com/p-7065-drop-glass-rh.aspx

As far as keeping this car a secret I think that is impossible as one of the photos lists the phone number of the seller.

[David T]

As far as keeping this car a secret I think that is impossible as one of the photos lists the phone number of the seller.

Initial appearances of Deloreans can be deceiving. Since there is not much paint to oxidize they tend to look better than most cars of their age. Now that you will be assessing it as a "runner" you have the chance to test all of the working systems. That and a closer inspection will determine the value. If it is a runner it can be worth as much as $20,000. Since you say it needs some cosmetic work the actual value is probably somewhat less. For example the LFF and the interior. As part of your inspection you should request to see the Title and any service history. This particular car looks like it spent most of it's life in a garage out of the weather. It does have a lot of miles but that is not as bad as it seems for a Delorean.

[Rich_NYS]

It now appears to have been sold, so I'm back to my original plan now of learning then looking for a manual shift.....

Thanks everyone for your input.

[LEVY]

So now your friend is driving a nice Delorean?

Now you know, don't ask anyone to inspect a Delorean for you!

I don't really believe it was your friend but maybe someone from here.

Next time make that little trip!

LEVY



It now appears to have been sold, so I'm back to my original plan now of learning then looking for a manual shift.....

Thanks everyone for your input.

[Rich_NYS]

So now your friend is driving a nice Delorean? LEVY


Hey, now yer just bein' mean....where's the DeLorean community comaraderie?? -LOL :cheers:

[LEVY]

Hey, now yer just bein' mean....where's the DeLorean community comaraderie?? -LOL :cheers:

Why don't you ask your friend to become member of this forum now that he is a proud owner of a Delorean? :biggrin:

LEVY