Farrar's car blog

[stevedmc]

Got the keys to the new apartment today. The garage is 10x12 feet. Plenty of room for the D, plus parts and tools! :D

Sounds bigger than my carport. Now you just need a fan and you'll have that AC fixed in no time.

[Dangermouse]

Got the keys to the new apartment today. The garage is 10x12 feet. Plenty of room for the D, plus parts and tools! :D

Errrr isn't the car like 14' long? Do you leave a bit sticking out?

[Farrar]

Errrr isn't the car like 14' long? Do you leave a bit sticking out?

Thanks for catching that. Should be 10 x 20 feet. Boy, am I tired. :lol:

I also wrote "10x12" on Facebook. I think it was in my head because of that Tower of Power song that starts out "Sittin' in a room along 'bout ten by twelve..." Can't remember the name of the song, but I remember it's on "East Bay Grease," a 1970 LP which I fortunately dumped over to hard disk before Katrina.

Anyway... I backed Sparky into the garage today! First I stopped in front of the garage, opened the doors so I could see better, and then backed in front of the garage to make sure I was oriented correctly. Then I saw how much clearance I had left-to-right and closed the doors to back in. I didn't get in perfectly straight, but for a first-time effort I think I did just fine. Now I just need to buy some of that heavy-duty free-standing plastic shelving and I can start getting the "feng shui" of my automotive haven going. ;)

And I can change brake pads without worrying about rain -- which is what it is doing right now. :lol:

[dmc6960]

Ahh, the joys of getting a new garage! My first 5 years of ownership was without any garage. I didn't even have concrete or asphalt. Only gravel. On gravel you cannot use a creeper, but I did frequent some cheap 3x5 building entry floor mats from the local hardware mega-store (Menards, since you don't seem to have them down there).

Now you can also continue your starter circuit troubleshooting.

[Farrar]

My first 5 years of ownership was without any garage...

I managed for four. Fortunately, though, the car was in a parking lot outside my apartment in each place I lived over the last four years. Still, it's nice to have a shady and dry place to work. And I don't have to keep my tools in the other car parked alongside, which was my technique up until now!

[stevedmc]

Have you had any luck with that start issue? Your car should be restored from the ground up by now since you've got that fancy garage.

[Farrar]

I am old. Lugging heavy boxes up to the third floor resulted in a pinched nerve under my right shoulderblade and an injury to my left elbow. I need to lick my wounds for a bit, and most importantly UNpack stuff, starting with the kitchen, before we go broke from eating restaurant food every night.

In other news, I found a DeLorean sitting under a cover on Elysian Fields Avenue in New Orleans. It's parked behind a van, but it was backed into the driveway so I recognized the front end. We stopped to have a closer look and saw the right rear wheel. It didn't look like anyone was home, except for a cleaning lady of Asian descent who did not seem interested in doing anything but waving hello from the livingroom window. I didn't have my camera with me, but a friend of mine has a "smart" phone and she got a couple of photos. I will ask her to e-mail them to me so I can post them here.

My Internet presence will be scarce until the service is hooked up at the new apartment, and this tingling pain under my right shoulderblade makes it hard to type for very long, so I won't be able to type for long stretches of time like before until this gets better.

[stevedmc]

Get better old man. We will miss you in them internets.

[dvonk]

+1, get better soon! moving is hectic an chaotic... well still be here when your life regains a sense of normalcy. :smile:

[Farrar]

OK, I'm still here and I have Internet now. The back is beginning to feel better, which is good considering that probably the next thing after I tackle the non-start problem is going to be that gear oil leak from the transmission's final drive.

My girlfriend has already forbidden me from buying the DeLorean I found in New Orleans on Monday. As if I have the money, time, or patience for a second, and the second would probably be a basket-case!

[jawn101]

Glad you're back and feeling better :)

How tall is your garage inside? You could get a lift and put the second D on top!

[stevedmc]

OK, I'm still here and I have Internet now. The back is beginning to feel better, which is good considering that probably the next thing after I tackle the non-start problem is going to be that gear oil leak from the transmission's final drive.

My girlfriend has already forbidden me from buying the DeLorean I found in New Orleans on Monday. As if I have the money, time, or patience for a second, and the second would probably be a basket-case!

How much do they want for it? Skipper is looking for a car.

[Farrar]

How much do they want for it? Skipper is looking for a car.

I have no idea. I don't even know if it's for sale. Google Street View shows that it was not there in October of 2007, but Google Earth shows it there under a cover just like now. So we can assume that it has run as recently as four years ago, or was towed to that spot and has not been sitting in that particular driveway for very long. So the frame may be in good shape -- or it may not, depending on the car's previous location. Remember, this is New Orleans, and the car could have been underwater in 2005.

[Farrar]

Just a quick update to mention that the unpacking of the new apartment is almost complete, and I will soon have my tools and parts organized to a point where I can start working on the car again. I knew I'd never make it to DCS once we decided to move, but I got my raffle ticket in the mail so I feel like I contributed in some form. I hope to make in two or four years... With any luck, #2613 will have air conditioning by then!

Best to all, and for those making the journey -- have a safe and fun trip!

[DMC5180]

Farrar,

Are you related to this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sir_Hugo_Drax_by_Michael_Lonsdale.jpg

The resemblance is uncanny. :biggrin:

[Farrar]

Farrar,

Are you related to this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sir_Hugo_Drax_by_Michael_Lonsdale.jpg

The resemblance is uncanny. :biggrin:

Not that I know of...

[dmc6960]

Not that I know of...

Lol, you need to start watching all of those Bond movies already!

[Farrar]

Lol, you need to start watching all of those Bond movies already!

I swear I will get around to it, after I am done unpacking from the move, and do the brake job and fix the air conditioning in #2613. Before I sit around flattening my rear end watching films, I need to have the ability to drive my D anywhere, like it used ti be when I first bought it.

Oh, and I have to figure out that starting problem, too. :(

[Farrar]

OK, I think definitely starting problem first.

I just realized that althought it is super cool to have the front of the car facing out when the garage door opens, it would be very bad to run the engine with it in that position. I will have to turn it around before I work on the starting issue.

For those of you with garages, what do you have for shelving? I'd like something water-resistant, since it gets very humid here. Is plastic shelving strong enough to hold boxes and bags of tools and heavy disused K-Jet parts?

[AdmiralSenn]

OK, I think definitely starting problem first.

I just realized that althought it is super cool to have the front of the car facing out when the garage door opens, it would be very bad to run the engine with it in that position. I will have to turn it around before I work on the starting issue.

For those of you with garages, what do you have for shelving? I'd like something water-resistant, since it gets very humid here. Is plastic shelving strong enough to hold boxes and bags of tools and heavy disused K-Jet parts?

I use a series of five-tier chrome wire shelving units. They're very sturdy and not too expensive. I don't trust any L-type bracket to hold the massive weight I store in my garage (floor jacks, chemical tanks, etc etc). You can buy these at Lowe's or Home Depot. The bracket may hold but unless it's solidly secured into a stud or TAPCON'd into structural concrete I don't see it staying in the wall.

[dmc6960]

I have yet to encounter a plastic shelf which no matter how well built, will not bow over time under heavy load.

[Farrar]

I use a series of five-tier chrome wire shelving units. They're very sturdy and not too expensive. I don't trust any L-type bracket to hold the massive weight I store in my garage (floor jacks, chemical tanks, etc etc). You can buy these at Lowe's or Home Depot. The bracket may hold but unless it's solidly secured into a stud or TAPCON'd into structural concrete I don't see it staying in the wall.

I don't plan on attaching anything shelf-like to the walls, only decorations, since I am only renting the garage.


I have yet to encounter a plastic shelf which no matter how well built, will not bow over time under heavy load.

Thanks for the recommendations, guys! I will look for the chrome ones and hope the hold out against the humidity. :)

P.S. I got a Bluetooth keyboard for my iPad. Hooray for fewer typos! :D

[Farrar]

Noticed my high beam headlights were a little loose and decided to investigate. Turns out the rubber seal on the rear of the H4 conversion housings I bought has degraded quickly and was no longer pushing against the bucket like it should. Since this also exposed the clip to the elements, I expect the clip will start rusting soon. So although I like the increased brightness of the H4/H2 bulbs, I will go back to the sealed beam units until I can afford the DMCH or European upgrade, which is pricier.

I couldn't help but notice when I had the bulbs removed that I can't even change the bulb without getting rust dust all over my fingers. Those buckets are in awful shape. How difficult is it to replace them? Could I do it in an afternoon? I don't have much time on my hands for the car these days.

Thanks.

[Farrar]

[QUOTE=Farrar;61867Those buckets are in awful shape. How difficult is it to replace them? Could I do it in an afternoon?[/QUOTE]

Scratch that -- I found the thread where I asked that question before. I have a terrible memory, sometimes.

Current shopping list from DMCH:

- left headlight bucket
- right headlight bucket
- left finishing piece
- right finishing piece
- adjusting screws (4)
- tension springs (4)
- black finishing screws (18)
- headlight kit [cheaper than buying all 4 at the auto parts store locally]

Anything else I need to refurbish the area?

[Farrar]

- headlight kit [cheaper than buying all 4 at the auto parts store locally]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record: scratch that. Although it is cheaper, those bulbs won't be as bright as the Silverstars they have at my local parts house. Everything else on that list stands, though, and I guess since no one has chimed in I will go ahead and purchase those parts, and hope that I did not omit anything because I hate to pay shipping charges unnecessarily.

[ccurzio]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record: scratch that.

http://i.imgur.com/HD0O2.gif

[jawn101]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record: scratch that. Although it is cheaper, those bulbs won't be as bright as the Silverstars they have at my local parts house. Everything else on that list stands, though, and I guess since no one has chimed in I will go ahead and purchase those parts, and hope that I did not omit anything because I hate to pay shipping charges unnecessarily.

Check out the prices on the Silverstars on Amazon. I got mine for about a $20 savings for all 4 over the parts house or the vendors. Much as I like to support the vendors, this is an easily obtainable part and was significantly cheaper :)

[Farrar]

Silverstars with free Super Saver Shipping is reason enough for me to buy all three seasons of "Animaniacs." Thanks, Jon! :D

In other news: the high temp in the forecast for tomorrow is 102. What the heck? I thought I had some more time before the hottest part of the year. It looks like the evaporator replacement will be sooner rather than later! :-O

[jawn101]

Silverstars with free Super Saver Shipping is reason enough for me to buy all three seasons of "Animaniacs." Thanks, Jon! :D

In other news: the high temp in the forecast for tomorrow is 102. What the heck? I thought I had some more time before the hottest part of the year. It looks like the evaporator replacement will be sooner rather than later! :-O

LOL, no problem. And Clint and I pulled my engine out in 106 degrees two weekends ago. Ask me how likely we are to do THAT again. :)

Edit: Actually we put it back in. It wasn't nearly as hot the day we removed it.

[Farrar]

LOL, no problem. And Clint and I pulled my engine out in 106 degrees two weekends ago. Ask me how likely we are to do THAT again. :)

Edit: Actually we put it back in. It wasn't nearly as hot the day we removed it.

I have better motivation if someone is helping me. If I am working by myself, I have a tendency to say "It's hot outside. Screw it," and stay indoors doing other stuff. :P

[stevedmc]

I have better motivation if someone is helping me. If I am working by myself, I have a tendency to say "It's hot outside. Screw it," and stay indoors doing other stuff. :P

That car better be road worthy in time for Ron's tech day.

[Farrar]

That car better be road worthy in time for Ron's tech day.

If I could drive it right now, I would. I need some more satisfaction in my life right now. Too bogged down in other stuff to enjoy myself much these days, apart from watching cartoons on TV.

[Farrar]

And now the light's burned out in the garage. I have to move the car to replace the bulb, so that I can find the tools to work on the car again. :lol:

[Farrar]

It occurs to me that in the last two years I have done more work on other cars, including others' DeLoreans, than I have on my own. It's time for me to correct this... I just don't know how, yet.

[jawn101]

It occurs to me that in the last two years I have done more work on other cars, including others' DeLoreans, than I have on my own. It's time for me to correct this... I just don't know how, yet.

... you're not still trying to figure out how to replace that light bulb, are you? Protip: righty tighty, lefty loosey. :)

[Farrar]

... you're not still trying to figure out how to replace that light bulb, are you? Protip: righty tighty, lefty loosey. :)

It involves moving the car without starting it. And either a step-ladder or one of those extensions people use for changing light bulbs that are very highly-placed.

[Bitsyncmaster]

You do know it takes three people to replace that bulb. One holds the bulb and the other two turn the ladder.:aniclap:

[Farrar]

You do know it takes three people to replace that bulb. One holds the bulb and the other two turn the ladder.:aniclap:

Or I could simply hire a teenaged girl to hold the bulb while the entire world revolves around her.

[jawn101]

Or I could simply hire a teenaged girl to hold the bulb while the entire world revolves around her.

Hi-o!!!

[Farrar]

Okay, so... my job and band are getting me down, so my girlfriend has decided that on Saturday I simply must work on the DeLorean to help me be happier. My sense of happiness is affected by a sense of accomplishment and organization... which I understand to be unusual compared to most people. But anyway...

I am forgoing the starter issue in lieu of air conditioning -- in spite of the car's other problems, lack of air conditioning is really the only reason I am not driving the car these days.

Saturday morning I will begin tearing into the area under the dashboard, and Pimp Daddy Rice will join me later in the morning to make sure I don't mess anything up.

I am excited to finally get something done on this car! 8)

[stevedmc]

Saturday morning I will begin tearing into the area under the dashboard, and Pimp Daddy Rice will join me later in the morning to make sure I don't mess anything up.

I'll be sure to impress your new neighbors with my work uniform.

[Farrar]

I'll be sure to impress your new neighbors with my work uniform.

I may be wearing my DeLorean Motor Company coveralls. Depends on the weather.

[Tillsy]

I am excited to finally get something done on this car! 8)

In the dark? Or have you changed that light bulb? :)

[Farrar]

In the dark? Or have you changed that light bulb? :)

The rain should hold off long enough for my girlfriend to help me push the car forward out of the garage so I can change the bulb, then back into the shade again. I am hopeful that the rain should hold off long enough, anyway.

[Farrar]

Halfway through evaporator replacement! Got the box out and disassembled. Now to sand the rusty flaps so I can get new foam to adhere before re-assembling the box with the new evaporator core, etc.

[stevedmc]

So that's whats you taking so long to get back down here. Someone is playing in the computer.

[Farrar]

Good thing Steve posted, else this post would have been combined with my previous one regardless of timestamp.

Quick update since it's past my bedtime: We shut down a little after 9pm.

New foam from Home Depot is on the flaps -- they were rusty and had to be sanded and sprayed clean, but the foam adhered fine and I think it makes a good seal.

The sealing tape supplied with the kit from DMCMW was more than enough to do the job.

The evaporator is installed, but the heater core lines are not.
The accumulator is installed but fittings have not been 100% tightened yet.

Steve left me his vacuum pump. Later this week -- probably this weekend -- I will tighten down those fittings and vacuum out the system one evening, then leave it overnight and check the vacuum reading in the morning.

If we did the work correctly, then I should have amazing a/c when this is all done -- with the exception of the condenser, everything in the system will be less than two years old (I started buying the parts for this project about two years ago with the hoses and compressor; the most recent purchase was the evaporator kit from DMCMW).

I *do* need help adapting this early-style system to accommodate a high-pressure switch and high-pressure release valve, which were provided in the kit I received but are not shown in the workshop manual. If someone could tell me how to install it in my system, that would be most excellent.

Thanks again to Steve for all his help. I hope the ice cream made it worth the trip.

I am tired but happy -- a welcome combination of feelings. I feel like I accomplished something important today! :)

[dvonk]

...I am tired but happy -- a welcome combination of feelings. I feel like I accomplished something important today! :)

good deal, glad you could finally get some work done on the D again. :smile:

[stevedmc]

Good thing Steve posted, else this post would have been combined with my previous one regardless of timestamp.

Quick update since it's past my bedtime: We shut down a little after 9pm.

New foam from Home Depot is on the flaps -- they were rusty and had to be sanded and sprayed clean, but the foam adhered fine and I think it makes a good seal.

The sealing tape supplied with the kit from DMCMW was more than enough to do the job.

The evaporator is installed, but the heater core lines are not.
The accumulator is installed but fittings have not been 100% tightened yet.

Steve left me his vacuum pump. Later this week -- probably this weekend -- I will tighten down those fittings and vacuum out the system one evening, then leave it overnight and check the vacuum reading in the morning.

If we did the work correctly, then I should have amazing a/c when this is all done -- with the exception of the condenser, everything in the system will be less than two years old (I started buying the parts for this project about two years ago with the hoses and compressor; the most recent purchase was the evaporator kit from DMCMW).

I *do* need help adapting this early-style system to accommodate a high-pressure switch and high-pressure release valve, which were provided in the kit I received but are not shown in the workshop manual. If someone could tell me how to install it in my system, that would be most excellent.

Thanks again to Steve for all his help. I hope the ice cream made it worth the trip.

I am tired but happy -- a welcome combination of feelings. I feel like I accomplished something important today! :)

Don't believe anything Farrar says. I drove out there, replaced a light bulb, and then went home.

[Tillsy]

Don't believe anything Farrar says. I drove out there, replaced a light bulb, and then went home.

You didn't fit a carburetor to the light fitting? :giggle:

[stevedmc]

You didn't fit a carburetor to the light fitting? :giggle:

No.

[Farrar]

By the way, most people who have replaced the evaporator/heater core say it's a real nightmare. It's not, really -- you just have to make sure you follow the procedure in the Workshop Manual. First get familiar with the area and how everything fits together, and then when you're following the procedure make note of how many fasteners the book says you have to deal with, because some of them are hard to find. If anything seems stuck, STOP and look for more fasteners, because the box is just plastic and it will break.

We did not remove the dashboard to get the HVAC box out, but the glovebox had already been removed (pending replacement). A trouble light comes in very handy, as will a small flashlight, but really the job is not too bad, in my opinion. It is messy because of the old tar seal that had to be removed and coolant dripping out, and it is time-consuming because of all of the stuff which has to be removed and replaced, but it is not particularly difficult, at least not removing and replacing the HVAC box.

The tricky part, for me, was the part under the wheel well. Here's a tip: put the accumulator on FIRST. The reason I say this is because the hose which runs from the condenser to the evaporator may not have enough play or flex in it for you to have a lot of maneuvering room for when you put the orifice tube in. This was the case on my car, so I found it easier to install the accumulator, then insert the orifice tube and install the bent metal pipe connector, then make sure it was at the right angle to clear the accumulator, before re-attaching the short hose and tightening everything down.

Also, don't force the orifice tube in -- just place it into position, and as you tighten the fitting down that will do the rest of the work for you.

All in all, I'd say it was not a very bad job. But then again, I'm not finished just yet... ;)

[stevedmc]

Good thing Steve posted, else this post would have been combined with my previous one regardless of timestamp.

Sean is gone. We can post multiple responses all day long and they won't automatically merge together anymore.

[Farrar]

Having consulted elsewhere on DMCTalk (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?4605-need-help-installing-hi-pressure-switch-and-release) and also on Facebook, it seems that John Hervey did not include the necessary 90-degree fitting on the end of his short a/c hose (the one that runs from the evaporator to the condenser). He did, however, include that "hub" which contains the high-pressure cutout switch and high-pressure release valve. If you look at the picture here (http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/ac-hub-assembly.jpg), you will see the entire assembly. I have everything in that picture except for the 90-degree fitting.

I received NOS versions of the high-pressure switch (http://store.delorean.com/p-7722-hi-press-cut-out-sw.aspx) and release valve (http://store.delorean.com/p-7723-pressure-relief-vlv.aspx) with the evaporator kit I bought from Dave and Julee (http://dmcmidwest.com/). However, without the adapter block (http://store.delorean.com/p-7725-adapter-condenser.aspx) I have no way of installing them, so I will need to figure out some way of adapting Hervey's parts to my system.

The fittings for that Hervey hub are exactly the same as those on the bottom left of the condenser, which is where DMC put the adapter block and high pressure relief valve on the later cars. I can install the hub in between the condenser and the hose. The only drawback is that my sight glass will be on the front of the car, and I will have to run two wires from the high pressure switch back to the harness, because the high pressure switch will be located in a different location from stock. However, it should work. I will test this theory on Saturday.

[dmc6960]

Huh? While I understand if you got a high pressure switch and valve included with your evaporator... Do you not already have a version of each already on that new adapter block Hervey sold you with the short hose (but without the 90º)?

For what its worth, the high pressure relief valve that Hervey sells will NOT screw in to an OEM adapter block, the o-ring seat is different. The same is likely true going the other way.

[Farrar]

Huh? While I understand if you got a high pressure switch and valve included with your evaporator... Do you not already have a version of each already on that new adapter block Hervey sold you with the short hose (but without the 90º)?

Correct. But I can't install Hervey's hub without the 90-degree fitting. I am hoping to find some way of making it work with what I have, when I get back to it on Saturday.

Thanks!

[Bitsyncmaster]

From what I remember, the hose I got at first was for early vin cars and would not work with the newer accumulators. So I bought his setup with the block, gauge, and switch and that bolted right on. The hose could have used another few inches of length but as long as you run it directly, it worked.

[dmc6960]

Correct. But I can't install Hervey's hub without the 90-degree fitting. I am hoping to find some way of making it work with what I have, when I get back to it on Saturday.

Thanks!

Well, if you want to use Hervey's setup, you'll need to get that 90º. Perhaps you can call him and get one.

If you want to use the OEM adaptor block that goes into the condenser, you're probably going to need another new short hose as well which can reach all the way to the evaporator inlet. The short hose included with Hervey's adapter block would be too short to reach directly to the evaporator, and also wouldn't have the correct curves necessary to make the attachment. Incidentally, if you do have more money to throw at this and want a good working setup without going back to Hervey, I have a spare short hose just for this purpose, and I'll sell it to you for a deal. It will work with or without the OEM style adapter block.

[Farrar]

I'm posting this with Tapatalk, so I'm not sure if it will work correctly.

Anyway, today I decided to finish the air conditioning job. As you can see here, the 90-degree fitting is absent from my wheel well.

12028

But conveniently, Hervey's "hub" has the same fittings male to female, which means it can be installed on either end of the short hose. I have therefore installed it where the DMC "adapter block" would have gone.

12029

As you can see, the sight glass is useless without a mirror. Nonetheless, I don't think I will be using it very often. All I have to do is run a couple of wires for the high-pressure switch, and all should be well.

... eventually ...

... because I connected the system to Stephen's vacuum pump tonight -- the pump to the yellow or "charging" hose from my manifold gauge set, and the red and blue high- and low-pressure hoses to the system as normal. I opened the lines and turned on the pump. When I walked to the front of the car, I heard what sounded like hissing coming from the wheel well. This is far superior to the hissing sound I had coming from underneath the dashboard prior to the evaporator replacement, but it is still bad news. I nonetheless ran the pump for about a half hour, and when I checked the gauges it was reading -5 in. Hg. -- not enough.

The only thing I could think was that I had noticed some slack in the fitting by the orifice tube. I checked it and although I couldn't tighten the fitting anymore, the tube was still swiveling. I disconnected the fitting and checked the O-ring. Although it looked OK, I replaced it with a new one. (I have many spares.) Everything back together, I turned on the pump again and heard the same hissing sound. Turned it off again. Decided to try two O-rings. This seems to have worked. However, I can hear a different sound from the accumulator. It sounds like it was almost coming from inside the accumulator. I double-checked all of the connections and made sure they were all tight, but the sound only changed slightly.

Having got enough mosquito bites for my taste, I decided to call it a night a little early today and post my experience here for you guys to ponder. I plan to try to vacuum the system down again tomorrow when I have more time and it's less skeetery outside. In the meantime... what do y'all think?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for any iPad-related typos.

Farrar

[stevedmc]

I still won the race.

[Farrar]

Everyone else, feel free to ignore Steve and post helpful or encouraging comments. I need both right now.

[stevedmc]

Everyone else, feel free to ignore Steve and post helpful or encouraging comments. I need both right now.

On a positive note, your r134a only cost $6.40 a can before tax. One thing I forgot to mention is to make sure the fittings on your gauge are not leaking. My el cheepo Harbor Freight gauge had a leak on the high side that kept me from being able to get a good vacuum. It would be a good idea to inspect your fittings where the gauge connects to the compressor to ensure you don't hear any hissing noises coming from there as well. I corrected the leak on my gauge by replacing the o rings with some spares I had left over from my $5 o ring kit from O'Reillys.

Hopefully someone else can chime in with some positive comments. I suspect they will be more jealous though because they probably paid $15 a can for their r134a.

[Ron]

You shouldn't have to use two o-rings...look it over real well to see what's up with that.
...you mentioned using the fittings to press the orifice tube in IIRC, did that give you any trouble or seem hard to tighten at all?

If you don't get, say, 10-15 hg within a few seconds, you have a leak.


Hang in there!

[Farrar]

You shouldn't have to use two o-rings...look it over real well to see what's up with that.

Maybe the wrong size O-ring was supplied with the hose. It's possible. The next time I am at the auto parts store I will look for an R-134 O-ring kit. Supposedly they contain all of the O-rings you need and then some. But as of right now, I am in no hurry. I just cleaned up the garage and closed everything.


...you mentioned using the fittings to press the orifice tube in IIRC, did that give you any trouble or seem hard to tighten at all?

No. It snapped right in and I tightened the fittings to push it in the rest of the way with almost no resistance.


If you don't get, say, 10-15 hg within a few seconds, you have a leak.

Well, I don't know what else to do. I've done everything by the book.


Hang in there!

Thanks, but I am giving up for now.

If you've already lost the race, there's no point in finishing. Steve taught me this. Thanks, dude. Let me know when you want your vacuum pump back.

[Ron]

Thanks, but I am giving up for now.
Well, when you get back to it...
It sounds like a mismatched fitting (or maybe over tightened). With all of the parts there, it seems like you could test each end separately on something else to get a clue or two??

[stevedmc]

Awe man. Don't quit. I was just joking.

[stevedmc]

Do you still have your old accumulator? I would flush it, install it, and see if you can pull vacuum with it.

[82DMC12]

Farrar, I think you have already compromised the A/C by not having the 90 degree fitting and moving hoses around to compensate. I think you should take a break and get the fitting from Hervey so you can put it together like I showed in that pic I gave you. You shouldn't need 2 o-rings, that sounds like trouble. You could also try filling with nitrogen, then you could possibly feel the gas escaping and find the leak that way. Just a few ideas.

[Bitsyncmaster]

If you can't find the leak, just put a can of R134a on your charge gauge and only open the valve a little. That should give you time to hear or spray soapy water around the system. The fittings don't need much force since they are o-ring sealed. You should use a little refrigerant oil on the o-rings when you assemble them.

[Farrar]

If you can't find the leak, just put a can of R134a on your charge gauge and only open the valve a little. That should give you time to hear or spray soapy water around the system. The fittings don't need much force since they are o-ring sealed. You should use a little refrigerant oil on the o-rings when you assemble them.

How little should I use? Some of them were put on nearly dry, but I did not have a lot of oil handy, and I could not remember which type was safe for R-134 so I figured better safe than black deathy.

[Ron]

Use Ester oil if you have it (It don't matter for wetting an o-ring), just wet the whole thing.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Use Ester oil if you have it (It don't matter for wetting an o-ring), just wet the whole thing.

For wetting the o-rings, Ester or PAG will be fine. It doesn't really get into the system.

[stevedmc]

The idea of sacrificing a $6.40 cent can of r134a sounds like a good idea if it will help to find the leak.

I was about to make another suggestion though, and ask if it is possible.

I have a small 3 gallon air compressor. Could we use this to put some pressure in his system to find the leak? If we could figure out how to connect it to his gauge we could give it a few quick bursts of pressure until he has 30 or so pounds in it. Then all we would ned is some soapy water and we should be able to find the leak.

Would it be possible to do this or would this screw something else up? I certainly want his AC to work so we can be friends again.

[Bitsyncmaster]

The idea of sacrificing a $6.40 cent can of r134a sounds like a good idea if it will help to find the leak.

I was about to make another suggestion though, and ask if it is possible.

I have a small 3 gallon air compressor. Could we use this to put some pressure in his system to find the leak? If we could figure out how to connect it to his gauge we could give it a few quick bursts of pressure until he has 30 or so pounds in it. Then all we would ned is some soapy water and we should be able to find the leak.

Would it be possible to do this or would this screw something else up? I certainly want his AC to work so we can be friends again.

An air compressor would work but I would be concerned you may introduce moisture into the system. I guess if your not leaving it pressurized for long it would be OK.

[stevedmc]

An air compressor would work but I would be concerned you may introduce moisture into the system. I guess if your not leaving it pressurized for long it would be OK.

Won't the moisture be removed when we pull vacuum?

[dmc6960]

Won't the moisture be removed when we pull vacuum?

Its always more difficult to pull out the moisture than it is to introduce it. Compressed air from an air compressor, especially when run in a very humid environment will introduce a TON of moisture. Probably to the point of saturating the desiccant in the accumulator. I would either do the quick and dirty r134a charge, or find a container of pressurized dry nitrogen and use that to pressurize the system.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Won't the moisture be removed when we pull vacuum?

Yes and No. It all depends on how much vacuum, the temperature and how long you hold the vacuum.

After all, a pan of water will evaporate left out to stand in a room for a week or two.

Your vacuum pump pulls the existing water vapor quickly but takes longer to draw the moisture out of the desiccant and oil.

[Farrar]

Your vacuum pump pulls the existing water vapor quickly but takes longer to draw the moisture out of the desiccant and oil.

Does that mean you just keep pulling a vacuum until you no longer see water coming out of the pump?

Thanks for the tip about the refrigerant oil.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Does that mean you just keep pulling a vacuum until you no longer see water coming out of the pump?

Thanks for the tip about the refrigerant oil.

The recommended minimum time is 45 min. My bother in law (owns an AC shop) will keep the pump on all night when he installs a new system (grocery store). So it's just best to keep it evacuated as long as you can. But with new oil and new dissident, you really don't need to evacuate it that long.

[Farrar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_laMB4H0Y_s

I ran the pump for just over an hour. The gauge read almost -29 in. Hg. when I shut off the lines then turned off the pump at about 3:45pm.

I will check the gauge again in the morning, and if all looks good, I will pull vacuum on it again just to be safe, while I look for the wiring for the low-pressure switch and wire in the high-pressure switch. Steve tucked that wiring away somewhere and I can't find it...

[dvonk]

great news! heres hoping that fixed the problem. :thumbup:

[Bitsyncmaster]

Nice job Farrar. That would be a good video to keep to show first timers how AC work is done. You make it look to easy (no swearing).

[Ron]

Oops...

12324
(RE: orientation, not depth)


12325

[DMC5180]

So much for the NO swearing! I can see Farrar now :wow: followed by :facepalm:


Yeah, NEW hose connections make it look so simple. You should have done a video that showed Removing the Connections of the old hoses and installing the new ones. I'm sure there was some swearing going on then.

[Farrar]

Nice job Farrar. That would be a good video to keep to show first timers how AC work is done. You make it look to easy (no swearing).

This is why I annotated it with wrench sizes, etc. -- with the systems now turning 30+ years, and R-12 becoming prohibitively expensive or unavailable in some areas, I imagine a lot of people will start working on their a/c and they need to know it is not as daunting a task as it may initially seem.


Oops...

12324

I am familiar with that photo, as the "variable orifice valve" from John Hervey is the one I have installed. According to Welmoed Jonker, the photograph shows the VOV pointing in the opposite direction of how you actually install it -- he mentioned this in another a/c thread here on DMCTalk. Just to make sure, I looked it up.

(By the way, GM calls them "expansion tubes," Ford calls them "fixed orifice." But no matter what they're called, all orifice tubes work the same way: they have a filter screen to trap contaminants, and a calibrated opening to meter refrigerant flow.)

In theory, you could install the orifice tube backwards and it would still work -- it has a filter screen on both ends. But the only way I could get mine to "click" into place was by installing it backwards from indicated in the photograph.

(Edit: Just in case I screwed it up, I do have an NOS orifice tube ready to install.)


great news! heres hoping that fixed the problem. :thumbup:

Thanks! Hope springs eternal, right? ;) I will know as soon as I am done with my coffee -- going to head out to the garage and check the gauge. At 8:23am it's only 82°F so I can walk into the garage without getting too sweaty before breakfast. :lol:

P.S. -- One thing I forgot to mention in the video is some info I got third-hand: someone told me that Dave Swingle once told him that a common place for an a/c leak is at the low pressure switch. I can see how this might be the case: although it's a 5/8" fitting that you can easily get a wrench on, it is made of plastic (white nylon perhaps?) so I imagine most people hesitate to tighten it down very hard. Also, it could be that they forgot the O-ring, just like I did the first time.

Edit: Ah, you guys are too quick! Two replies in the time it too me to write one! :lol:

[Farrar]

You should have done a video that showed Removing the Connections of the old hoses and installing the new ones. I'm sure there was some swearing going on then.

I didn't have a video camera back then, but the only fittings I had difficulty with were the ones on either end of that short bent pipe where the orifice tube goes in. I opted to remove the evaporator with the hose still installed.

[DMC5180]

Please show us where it states the VOV goes the other way.

[Ron]

This is why I annotated it with wrench sizes, etc. -- with the systems now turning 30+ years, and R-12 becoming prohibitively expensive or unavailable in some areas, I imagine a lot of people will start working on their a/c and they need to know it is not as daunting a task as it may initially seem.
I am familiar with that photo, as the "variable orifice valve" from John Hervey is the one I have installed. According to Welmoed Jonker, the photograph shows the VOV pointing in the opposite direction of how you actually install it -- he mentioned this in another a/c thread here on DMCTalk.

Well, I believe you need to look it up again (while noting evaporator mounted VOVs mount backwards from condenser mounted VOVs). Or, consider that the larger filter is there to catch "trash" from the compressor, or, where the "hook hole", if equipped, will be for a remover to grab.



(Just to make sure, I looked it up, ...)
Link???


(By the way, GM calls them "expansion tubes," Ford calls them "fixed orifice." But no matter what they're called, all orifice tubes work the same way: they have a filter screen to trap contaminants, and a calibrated opening to meter refrigerant flow.)
In theory, you could install the orifice tube backwards and it would still work -- it has a filter screen on both ends. But the only way I could get mine to "click" into place was by installing it backwards from indicated in the photograph.

(Edit: Just in case I screwed it up, I do have an NOS orifice tube ready to install.)
Some call it an "orifice tube", or "fixed orifice", or "fixed orifice tube", etc, and some to confuse things, "expansion tube," all the same thing. Others use an "expansion valve". These are two totally different units which look/work nothing alike. Yes, there is a filter on both ends of an orifice tube, but they are different sizes.The larger one (where a hook hole is) goes to the outside (away from the evaporator). The small one is a backup for what may pass through the tube (goes inside evaporator tube first). You might get away with putting a fixed orifice in backwards but, I would not try it with a variable type.

===========

You must have been replying while I was editing my last post- If your condenser has a groove or butt where you put the o-ring to remind yourself in the vid...you have it in the wrong place.

[Farrar]

Link???

Link (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2654-Orifice-Tube-Install)!!!

Thanks be to Google.

No offense Ron, but your post came across as a little know-it-all-ish. Have you been taking lessons from David Teitelbaum? ;)

Edit: After studying Fig. 23 on page N:03:02 of the Workshop Manual, it looks like the short end of the orifice tube does indeed point toward the evaporator. (Although I didn't catch it on film, I had installed the long end in that direction.) I tried searching for photographic evidence of either direction of installing it online, but turned up nothing, so I will have to trust the sometimes-wrong Workshop Manual. This will make installing the bent tube a bit trickier, but shouldn't be too bad. I don't have an orifice tube removal tool, but if it's needed I can rent/borrow one from the nearest parts house.

[Farrar]

Good news: the system held vacuum for almost 24 hours without the gauge budging. BTW, I didn't wrench like hell on those fittings -- the O-rings do the sealing. I might even put some anti-seize compound on the fittings the next time I am in that area.

Speaking of which -- I relieved pressure on the system (by slightly undoing the low-pressure sensor until air leaked in through the Schrader valve) and went about removing the VOV which, naturally, left its white plastic bit inside the tube. The regular orifice tube extraction tool assumes two things: 1.) the thing isn't broken, 2.) it was installed correctly in the first place. ;) So I have ordered a tool for removing broken orifice tubes (cost a whopping $15), which should arrive later this week. I'm off to work now in the pouring rain, so the next time I will have a chance to work on the car is next Saturday anyway, and the tool will have arrived by then.

Until next time...

[stevedmc]

I'll admit I am a little upset about Farrar's progress. I was thinking about putting AC in the Mustang just to brag about it to Farrar but now its pointless since he is almost finished.

[Bitsyncmaster]

My suggestion is use the standard orifice. Any bend on the VOV valve will stop it from working.

[Farrar]

I'll admit I am a little upset about Farrar's progress. I was thinking about putting AC in the Mustang just to brag about it to Farrar but now its pointless since he is almost finished.

Don't forget that it will take me a week to change the orifice tube.


My suggestion is use the standard orifice. Any bend on the VOV valve will stop it from working.

Since I have one, that's what I plan on doing. Removing what's left of Hervey's VOV will doubtless destroy it, and I only got it because I was ordering new hoses and compressor from him and it was worth saving on shipping. I've since read about owners using the stock orifice tube with R-134a having no complaints about cooling performance, and it came included with the evaporator from DMC Midwest.

Saturday will be the big day, I suppose...

[Ron]

Link (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2654-Orifice-Tube-Install)!!!

Thanks be to Google.

No offense Ron, but your post came across as a little know-it-all-ish. Have you been taking lessons from David Teitelbaum? ;)

Edit: After studying Fig. 23 on page N:03:02 of the Workshop Manual, it looks like the short end of the orifice tube does indeed point toward the evaporator. (Although I didn't catch it on film, I had installed the long end in that direction.) I tried searching for photographic evidence of either direction of installing it online, but turned up nothing, so I will have to trust the sometimes-wrong Workshop Manual. This will make installing the bent tube a bit trickier, but shouldn't be too bad. I don't have an orifice tube removal tool, but if it's needed I can rent/borrow one from the nearest parts house.
You're welcome, Farrar.

[Farrar]

You're welcome, Farrar.

And since I can no longer avoid extreme snark and condescension even on MY OWN THREAD, I will leave DMCTalk. Bye, y'all. It was fun.

[stevedmc]

And since I can no longer avoid extreme snark and condescension even on MY OWN THREAD, I will leave DMCTalk. Bye, y'all. It was fun.

:lockdance:

[Ryan]

http://i.qkme.me/3p3m40.jpg

[82DMC12]

Farrar I have like 3 orifice valves. You can have one for free if you need one.

[stevedmc]

We demand an AC update!

[stevedmc]

Because Farrar has not updated this thread, I have started a new poll.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?4839-Should-Farrar-be-banned

[ccurzio]

Because Farrar has not updated this thread, I have started a new poll.

No. Completely unnecessary. He does not owe you or the forum anything and is welcome back at any time.

[wiresman]

Geez, I just now got things sorted only to come back here and find Farrar has been chased off....such a shame...