Ask Bill about carbing a DeLorean and other K-Jet/Carb tangets [Archive] - Page 3 - DMCTalk Forum

stevedmc

10-19-2011, 06:19 PM

At the risk of flaming anyone (which is NOT the intent), why is it that the "reliability and ease of carbs" is all of a sudden creating this need for carrying spare fuel pumps? :confused0:

In other words, DO NOT read this as antagonistic or pro K-Jet or EFI, it is an earnest question that we should try to find an answer to. Both of those two previously mentioned technologies share the same potential problem of the inertia switch.

Bill has about a dozen documented carb conversions and Heninger has done a few as well. Of those there are only 3 documented problems.

1.) The first issue was Bill's in which a piece of trash got sucked into the fuel pump. Trash will kill any fuel pump.

2.) The second issue is on Farrar's car. I believe he has had two pump failures. The source of the problem has not been determined.

3.) The third issue is on my car. I suspected water getting in the boot to be an issue so I sealed it shut with a plastic bag. I suspected the Airtex pump to be trash so I replaced it with a Spectra. I have gone through two fuel pumps (each replaced free under warranty). I now suspect the problem to be ground related. I might just run a ground wire directly to my pump before thursday to test my theory.

So out of 15 cars we have two cars with problems which have not been solved. Are there even two documented and working homebrew EFI conversions on this forum? I wouldn't know because I stopped posting in the EFI thread after my posts started getting deleted.

Do you need a place to crash friday night in atlanta? If so, let me know.

--buddy

Don't know yet. I'm probably just going to drive until I get sleepy and find a hotel room. I wouldn't mind a place to stay Saturday night though. Thanks.

opethmike

10-19-2011, 06:32 PM

In other words, DO NOT read this as antagonistic or pro K-Jet or EFI,

[QUOTE=stevedmc;25721] Are there even two documented and working homebrew EFI conversions on this forum?

Interesting.

stevedmc

10-19-2011, 06:40 PM

[B]In other words, DO NOT read this as antagonistic or pro K-Jet or EFI,

All of his questions were answered on previous posts on this thread. I was just wondering how many successful homebrew EFI conversions are documented on this forum.

sean

10-19-2011, 07:00 PM

Of those there are only 3 documented problems.

.
don't forget about congerz83. And these are just the folks that post here.

stevedmc

10-19-2011, 07:55 PM

For what it's worth I went ahead and wired a ground connection directly to the fuel pump from my battery.

Let's see if I survive the 10 hour drive to Sean's house without any fuel related failures.

don't forget about congerz83. And these are just the folks that post here.
A guy named Lou called me the other day from NY. I suspect he is the same guy. Anyway, Lou told me he is waiting for Bill to test and ship the manifold and carb.

Once again I ask the same question. How many people have successfully performed homebrew efi conversions and documented it on this forum?

Bill has documented nearly every one of his conversions on this and the old forum.

sean

10-19-2011, 08:15 PM

Once again I ask the same question. How many people have successfully performed homebrew efi conversions and documented it on this forum?

Bill has documented nearly every one of his conversions on this and the old forum.

I'm confused my this matters? Someone say something?

AdmiralSenn

10-19-2011, 09:11 PM

Off the top of my head?

Myself (car is garaged due to lack of fascias, not a problem with the fuel system), Owen, Daryl, Jim. More on the way.

And no, it doesn't matter. Even if nobody had EVER finished an EFI conversion or documented it to your satisfaction, people's fuel pumps dying is an issue. I don't know of any of the EFI guys who've gone through new fuel pumps that fast (for that matter K-Jet users don't usually have this big of a problem with them either), and our applications are higher pressure and more strenuous on the pump. And I didn't have to modify my fuel pump or wiring. (In fairness, Christine did lose two pumps on K-Jet for no apparent reason, but that was when I first bought the car and she's been trouble free since. Those were also from that bad run of pumps from some third-rate manufacturer a few years ago.)

Now that I've answered your question, I'm - as respectfully as possible - going to ask you a question, Steve: What does the number of EFI conversions have to do with the question of whether or not carb conversion fuel pumps are dying too quickly?

And I'll add another question: Are we to understand that interest in this topic from anyone who doesn't have a carburetor on their car is unwelcome? Your response to a straightforward question came off as unnecessarily hostile and antagonistic.

stevedmc

10-19-2011, 09:13 PM

I'm confused my this matters? Someone say something?

The EFI guys like to criticize our conversions for the few rare problems that have occurred.

Bill has contributed towards at least a dozen successful conversions. I'm just trying to find out how many successful homebrew EFI conversions have done by other shade tree mechanics. So far no one has answered.

If I were to ask this question of the EFI thread it would just get deleted.

For the record I believe my fuel pump issue to be electrical. We will find out if my ground trick does any good after I make my long drive this weekend.

Electrical problems would affect any fuel pump includin EFI and CIS. We don't know if Farrar's problem is electrical or not but judging from his current relay compartment problems it wouldn't surprise me.

AdmiralSenn

10-19-2011, 09:26 PM

The EFI guys like to criticize our conversions for the few rare problems that have occurred.

Bill has contributed towards at least a dozen successful conversions. I'm just trying to find out how many successful homebrew EFI conversions have done by other shade tree mechanics. So far no one has answered.

If I were to ask this question of the EFI thread it would just get deleted.

I don't think anyone has been criticizing you. And I answered you, so... yeah.

And no, it wouldn't get deleted unless it looked like things were getting ugly. Here you have someone politely asking a question, stating his intent straight up that he is NOT disparaging anyone's car or modifications, and now apparently it's "us vs. them" and a race to see how many people convert their cars?

Am I missing something?

sean

10-19-2011, 09:27 PM

If I were to ask this question of the EFI thread it would just get deleted.

:ehh::cry:

Am I missing something?

Maybe Steve is possessed by Bill. :D

stevedmc

10-19-2011, 09:41 PM

I don't think anyone has been criticizing you. And I answered you, so... yeah.

And no, it wouldn't get deleted unless it looked like things were getting ugly. Here you have someone politely asking a question, stating his intent straight up that he is NOT disparaging anyone's car or modifications, and now apparently it's "us vs. them" and a race to see how many people convert their cars?

Am I missing something?

No hard feelings here. I didn't realize there was more than one successful EFI homebrew conversion.

The reason I asked how many is simple. I figured, how can an EFI enthusiast criticize a few fuel pump issues (one solved and two yet to be solved) when they can't even get more than one or two EFI conversions to work correctly.

Perhaps my two fuel pump failures occurred "for no apparent reason". Maybe it isn't An electrical problem but I'm certainly going to do some testing.

I heard Kjet pumps fail for no apparent reason as well.

Farrar

10-19-2011, 09:44 PM

people's fuel pumps dying is an issue.

Agreed -- except I'd say "problem" rather than "issue." For what it's worth, it's not just low-pressure pumps which have experienced failure. Remember the thread about measurement of low pump voltage? I can't remember whose it was, but that was on a stock car which had a high fuel pump failure rate (compared to other stock cars) and I believe the problem was cured by improving the connection to ground. Insufficient voltage will cause your pump to heat and die prematurely. I think users of any system would be well-served to make sure they have a good solid ground from their pump (or inertia switch if still so equipped) to make sure their pumps last as long as possible.

Farrar

stevedmc

10-19-2011, 09:45 PM

:ehh::cry:

Maybe Steve is possessed by Bill. :D

I told you his spirit lives on through me. On another note, someone contacted me today and asked me about my carb conversion. He knew nothing about this deal or Bill.

Ron

10-19-2011, 09:47 PM

Am I missing something?Yes! You forgot to give Steve credit due for reasonably answering reasonable questions asked of him without demeaning slurs and tangents skewed all the way back to the formation of a freaking mole molecule on a dinosaurs ass and its eventual ill affects on the fuel combustion due to its otherwise altered composition.

sean

10-19-2011, 09:48 PM

I told you his spirit lives on through me.

Then I suppose I should expect some cheerwine and very personable and easy to talk to "in person" person on Saturday. Sadly this will be immediately followed by you returning to a bipolar internets facade of which the folks that met you in person just don't understand. This all assumes bill is still coursing through your being :D

Farrar

10-19-2011, 09:51 PM

I told you his spirit lives on through me.

Dude, give that spirit back! No wonder he hasn't e-mailed me -- his spirit is nowhere near his computer. Give it back to Bill's body so he can type!

Farrar

Ron

10-19-2011, 09:52 PM

I heard Kjet pumps fail for no apparent reason as well.
30 years old. Sit for years. Kinked hoses. And you hit one big the nail on the head, electrical.
Not a K-jet v/s carb issue...well it shouldn't be.

stevedmc

10-19-2011, 09:58 PM

Yes! You forgot to give Steve credit due for reasonably answering reasonable questions asked of him without demeaning slurs and tangents skewed all the way back to the formation of a freaking mole molecule on a dinosaurs ass and its eventual ill affects on the fuel combustion due to its otherwise altered composition.

All your base are belong to us.

Ron

10-19-2011, 10:08 PM

All your base are belong to us.Do who, what?

Farrar

10-19-2011, 10:11 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icVy7Ve6y6A

sean

10-19-2011, 10:12 PM

Do who, what?
:shocked:
Time to turn in your internets card Ron. I'll collect it Saturday.

Ron

10-19-2011, 10:23 PM

:shocked:
Time to turn in your internets card Ron. I'll collect it Saturday.
For great justice, no doubt....But, but...K-Jet have no base, only carbs!

[No fair while I'm crunching numbers (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1954-Petition-to-get-Sean-from-closing-threads-he-doesn-t-like&p=25798&viewfull=1#post25798)] ...ouch!

stevedmc

10-19-2011, 10:28 PM

For great justice, no doubt....But, but...K-Jet have no base, only carbs!

Farrar posted the wrong video. Don't trust him. Its this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fvTxv46ano

Spittybug

10-19-2011, 10:30 PM

Wow, imagine if I had actually said or inferred anything derogatory rather than simply asking a question and taking the high road by clearly stating my desire not to offend, flame or be antagonistic.

The fuel pump issue is buried here in this thread rather than in a dedicated one. I humbly apologize for being a successful EFI guy lurking in a carburetor thread.

It's a shame that the pursuit of answers and solutions gets derailed by one's choice of technology. Almost parallels religion and the pursuit of solving common American problems, doesn't it? I respectfully retract that last statement in case it violates the "no religion" rule for the posts.

If I can help someone I will. K-Jet, carb or EFI alike. Can everyone claim the same?

stevedmc

10-19-2011, 10:31 PM

If I can help someone I will. K-Jet, carb or EFI alike. Can everyone claim the same?

All your base are belong to us.

Spittybug

10-19-2011, 10:34 PM

All your base are belong to us.

Sorry, the Queen's English seems to be letting me down with respect to understanding what the heck you just said.

stevedmc

10-19-2011, 10:35 PM

Sorry, the Queen's English seems to be letting me down with respect to understanding what the heck you just said.

Please see post #531.

Btw, I'd help anyone. I've got no harsh feelings. I just replied to a question, said what I know, and asked a question.

Farrar

10-19-2011, 10:39 PM

If I can help someone I will. K-Jet, carb or EFI alike. Can everyone claim the same?

I can say that, and this forum is full of examples of such. I may not be as helpful as I like, but I certainly try to help others, regardless of their situation.

FWIW, my reply about fuel pump failures was unfortunately bumped by Steve's post starting Page 53. It was not biased toward or against any particular fuel delivery system.

Farrar

stevedmc

10-19-2011, 10:44 PM

This might excite some K-Jet people but has anyone considered that I might have had electrical/ground issues going to my fuel pump BEFORE I decided to switch to a carburetor?

For all I know my CIS fuel pump was having the same problems. The car did occasionally stall before I installed my carburetor. The records for my car indicated the fuel pump had been replaced a couple of years before I purchased my car. Hmmm.

Then I suppose I should expect some cheerwine and very personable and easy to talk to "in person" person on Saturday. Sadly this will be immediately followed by you returning to a bipolar internets facade of which the folks that met you in person just don't understand. This all assumes bill is still coursing through your being :D

Probably so. Speaking of Cheerwine, is there any available in your area or on my route?

sean

10-19-2011, 10:48 PM

This might excite some K-Jet people.

6133

Probably so. Speaking of Cheerwine, is there any available in your area or on my route?

There is some in the area, just not like in NC

Ron

10-19-2011, 10:51 PM

If I can help someone I will. K-Jet, carb or EFI alike. Can everyone claim the same? I do!

opethmike

10-19-2011, 10:53 PM

I do!

Me too; provided it is something I'm experienced with enough to provide knowledgeable help.

stevedmc

10-19-2011, 10:54 PM

I even helped a guy the other day that converted his car to a time machine replica. I'll admit the time machine stuff isn't my cup of tea but I'll do anything to help out a fellow Delorean owner. I love these crappy little cars.

Deloreans are a lot like a hot woman that does nothing but fuss at you all the time. It sucks getting fussed at but for some reason we are willing to put up with it.

Ron

10-19-2011, 10:56 PM

Farrar posted the wrong video. Don't trust him. Its this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fvTxv46ano
THANK YOU for this post!

Given the post times and reference in my response (below), I get to keep my internets card!!!:hihi2:

For great justice, no doubt

stevedmc

10-19-2011, 11:01 PM

For what its worth on another thread I found out that EFI fuel pumps need reliable ground connections to work as well. This gets a load off my mind.

For a while I thought low pressure fuel pumps were the only ones that needed reliable ground connections to operate.

opethmike

10-19-2011, 11:10 PM

*hugs Steve tightly*

congerz83

10-20-2011, 07:09 AM

For what it's worth I went ahead and wired a ground connection directly to the fuel pump from my battery.

Let's see if I survive the 10 hour drive to Sean's house without any fuel related failures.

A guy named Lou called me the other day from NY. I suspect he is the same guy. Anyway, Lou told me he is waiting for Bill to test and ship the manifold and carb.

Once again I ask the same question. How many people have successfully performed homebrew efi conversions and documented it on this forum?

Bill has documented nearly every one of his conversions on this and the old forum.

No my name is Rick, and Bill assisted me with my conversion in april. I haven't put 250 miles on the car since the conversion. The since the pump has failed twice on me already, I'm going to buy another. I'm also hoping the pump is the reason this thing runs like crap.

stevedmc

10-20-2011, 08:44 AM

No my name is Rick, and Bill assisted me with my conversion in april. I haven't put 250 miles on the car since the conversion. The since the pump has failed twice on me already, I'm going to buy another. I'm also hoping the pump is the reason this thing runs like crap.

Have you checked voltage?

congerz83

10-20-2011, 08:59 AM

Have you checked voltage?

To be honest, I have not. But low voltage would not cause sudded pump failure and function. It may indeed be a loose ground somewhere. I'll have to check the next non-windy day. I thought Bill and I had made sure the grounds were good... Oh well... the utter joys of owning a Carbureted-Delorean.:rant:

DCUK Martin

10-20-2011, 08:59 AM

congerz83

10-20-2011, 09:21 AM

Hmmm. I'm amused.

Somehow the carbs vs K-Jet debate has segwayed into "Carb conversions vs EFI conversions".

The thing that kills K-Jet is fuel contamination. If people are converting to carbs because their K-Jet is being a problem, do any of them check the state of the tank? It might explain this rash of pump failures... I reserve the right to snigger if this is the case, after all those hours of arguing that K-Jet is only unreliable when it comes to fuel contamination...

There are several EFI D's in Europe too.

I had to clean my tank a couple months before the conversion. What a holy nightmare. I wish my pump problems would be that easy to diagnose. Alas, it may wind up being some loose wire, or it's groundin out, or it's a poor ground. The possibilities are limitless. :swear1:

The odd part about the "failure" is it only occurs when I drive quickly down hill. After I give up cranking, and give it five minutes it's starts up without a hitch. These are also VERY short trips. So I'm not sure an overheated pump would apply. Like I said... who knows!

Farrar

10-20-2011, 09:57 AM

If people are converting to carbs because their K-Jet is being a problem, do any of them check the state of the tank?

Yes.

Next.

Farrar

stevedmc

10-20-2011, 10:24 AM

If people are converting to carbs because their K-Jet is being a problem, do any of them check the state of the tank?

Yep. A previous owner cleaned the tank, replaced the K-Jet fuel pump, replaced the accumulator, and who knows what else. I don't have the records in front of me at the moment.

Perhaps my car already had electrical problems at the fuel pump. What people don't realize is my low pressure fuel pump has less problems than my old CIS fuel pump, even with suspected electrical problems. Hmmm.

Our fuel pumps only have to run long enough to keep the carburetor bowl full. The fuel pump could sputter on and off all day long and it might not even be noticed because we only need it to run long enough to fill the bowl. If a Kjet or EFI fuel pump starts to sputter you are screwed.

Farrar

10-20-2011, 11:46 AM

If a Kjet or EFI fuel pump starts to sputter you are screwed.

Not necessarily -- remember, those roller-cell fuel pumps put out more fuel than is necessary. It would be possible to run the engine with the fuel pump at less than 100% efficiency, but you might occasionally stall under load/acceleration, or get other symptoms of a lean condition.

Farrar

SamHill

10-20-2011, 11:52 AM

Hmmm. I'm amused.

Somehow the carbs vs K-Jet debate has segwayed into "Carb conversions vs EFI conversions".

do any of them check the state of the tank? It might explain this rash of pump failures... I reserve the right to snigger if this is the case,

Mine was cleaned twice. Eventually we wised up and ditched the metal bracket.

Farrar

10-20-2011, 01:23 PM

Mine was cleaned twice. Eventually we wised up and ditched the metal bracket.

I have a feeling Martin's sniggering, anyway. ;-)

Farrar

sean

10-20-2011, 01:39 PM

I have a feeling Martin's sniggering, anyway. ;-)

Farrar

That or he is possessed by Steve.

DCUK Martin

10-20-2011, 01:40 PM

Nah, not really. Despite Bill's efforts to make it look like the contrary, I've never suggested people shouldn't convert to a carburetor.

If nothing else you've shown there's no "magic bullet" to making a DeLorean reliable.

stevedmc

10-20-2011, 01:46 PM

If nothing else you've shown there's no "magic bullet" to making a DeLorean reliable.

Can you run EFI or CIS with a coke bottle full of gasoline?

SamHill

10-20-2011, 01:47 PM

there's no "magic bullet" to making a DeLorean reliable.

Tell me something I don't know. I used to cling to 'but it's thirty years old!' I don't know why I ever made that argument.

Ron

10-20-2011, 01:55 PM

Can you run EFI or CIS with a coke bottle full of gasoline?Sure! If there is a way for the air to get in, I can get fuel in..??? But you know...

Seriously, tell me why you seem to approach a lot of this from a 'build/fix it for when it fails' rather than for it 'not to fail' in the first place? -- No BS, sarcasim, wit, etc...straight up?

stevedmc

10-20-2011, 01:58 PM

Sure! If there is a way for the air to get in, I can get fuel in..??? But you know...

Seriously, tell me why you seem to approach a lot of this from a 'build/fix it for when it fails' rather than for it 'not to fail' in the first place? -- No BS, sarcasim, wit, etc...straight up?

I don't understand how a coke bottle could possibly provide enough pressure to push fuel through a fuel injector unless you run a hose inside the car and have a passenger squeeze the bottle while you drive.

I do aproach stuff with the mentality of it not failing in the first place but I also prepare myself for the unexpected. Do you carry battery jumper cables in your car?

sean

10-20-2011, 02:02 PM

stevedmc

10-20-2011, 02:05 PM

Where did Ron say anything about injector? He just needs a place where air gets in.

Doesn't an EFI system have to push fuel through injectors? Surely you can't run an EFI conversion on air alone.

sean

10-20-2011, 02:09 PM

Doesn't an EFI system have to push fuel through injectors? Surely you can't run an EFI conversion on air alone.

All you need is air mixed with the fuel, doesn't necessarily have to come from the injector ports.

Ron

10-20-2011, 02:10 PM

I don't understand how a coke bottle could possibly provide enough pressure to push fuel through a fuel injector unless you run a hose inside the car and have a passenger squeeze the bottle while you drive.Who says it has to go through an injector? Haven't you ever made a home made "nitro boost" out of a can of ether and a vacuum hose....lol

I do aproach stuff with the mentality of it not failing in the first place but I also prepare myself for the unexpected. Do you carry battery jumper cables in your car?Sure for the same reason. But you don't carry a coke bottle of gas around, do you?

congerz83

10-20-2011, 02:15 PM

if nothing else you've shown there's no "magic bullet" to making a delorean reliable.

amen!

Farrar

10-20-2011, 02:16 PM

there's no "magic bullet" to making a DeLorean reliable.

...something everyone should bear in mind when working on one of these little beasts.

Bravo.

Martin, if I see you in Orlando, I'll buy you a pint.

Farrar

stevedmc

10-20-2011, 02:20 PM

Who says it has to go through an injector? Haven't you ever made a home made "nitro boost" out of a can of ether and a vacuum hose....lol
Sure for the same reason. But you don't carry a coke bottle of gas around, do you?

Sorry but I've got no experience with nitro boosting so thats all Greek to me. I don't understand how an EFI system would suddenly be able to adapt to a hose with fuel in it. Would something need to be reprogrammed? I'm not trying to be smart, just asking a serious question.

No, I don't carry a coke bottle full of gas around with me. There is a coke bottle in my car that is half full of coke though. Hopefully after this weekend I will have about 20 bottles full of diet cheerwine as well. If I truely got in a pinch, I would be able to rig something up with a bottle, fuel line, and gas from the tank.

As I have said many times before, I choose to carry a spare fuel pump. I suspect my fuel pump problems to be ground related so last night I wired a ground connection directly from my battery to the fuel pump. I'm suprised no one has critisized this yet since I no longer have an inertia switch or RPM relay hookekd up anymore.

Lets wait and see if I have any fuel pump failures after 20+ hours of driving this weekend. If my fuel pump fails with with a solid ground connection, then we have a problem.

Originally I was going to be lazy and keep driving as is, without a straight ground connection, but I figure this weekend is an excelent chance to test my theory.

Ron

10-20-2011, 02:20 PM

...something everyone should bear in mind when working on one of these little beasts.
+1

sean

10-20-2011, 02:24 PM

Hopefully after this weekend I will have about 20 bottles full of diet cheerwine as well.

Bleh, diet? gotta go FULL Cheer!

Ron

10-20-2011, 02:33 PM

If I truely got in a pinch, I would be able to rig something up with a bottle, fuel line, and gas from the tank..What I was getting at with the ether is that all you need is a vacuum source to the intake (plenum) to run the engine. Sure, you are a lot better off with a carb (A/f control) if the pump goes out but you will only get a 1/4 mile or so out of it... I've never been that lucky when I run out and it's not very safe especially since it will run lean and be VERY prone to backfire when it runs out....not practical at all except in a very few instances at best. I can't imagine rigging up anything in a D with the tank lower than the engine...except like I said a lot of BS for a 1/4 mile trip.

I think I know what a lot of the problem is with carb pumps going out...we can check it out at the meet (I posted it some where before but no response).

Ron

10-20-2011, 02:37 PM

Bleh, diet? gotta go FULL Cheer!I'll tell you one thing- With Bill missing and talk of his spirit possessing Steve and his spirit possessing someone else, I am NOT drinking anything at Branch Dahlonega!!!

stevedmc

10-20-2011, 03:29 PM

I think I know what a lot of the problem is with carb pumps going out...we can check it out at the meet (I posted it some where before but no response).

Whats the problem?

DCUK Martin

10-20-2011, 04:37 PM

The best thing anyone can do to make their car as reliable as possile is to understand it.

Easy to say!

I thought I'd post this link to a friend of mine in the Alpine club whose thread I read today. he's sunk umpteen thousands into restoring and modifying a GTA. It ain't just DeLorean owners who think their cars are cursed...

http://www.renaultalpineownersclub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5380

(and I'd like to point out that Simon's avatar is the source of a long running joke)

Oh, and the starter and alternator circuits are identical to the DeLorean's.

Ron

10-20-2011, 04:45 PM

Whats the problem?I'm thinking (other than trash, electrical) you might be using the wrong pumps or pluming depending on the carb(s)...cycling running wide open or labored, or, mostly pumping through the internal by-pass valve...The ones I see posted around here might be being over worked since they aren't pressure regulated and run ~2 times the pressure required by the float's needle valve, most of the time. They never rest (they are not made to take it like todays internal pumps...diferent "style"). In the old days, we used to use AC adjustable pressure regulated rail mounted pumps or one matched to (slightly above) the float requirements on racers to pitch mechanical pumps and get rid of the drag... The floats needle valve's on-off pressure is not that tight which allows for even more rest time...
Just a guess and food for thought...I'll see if I can dig up the post if you want or we can talk about it Saturday.

Ron

10-20-2011, 04:54 PM

The best thing anyone can do to make their car as reliable as possile is to understand it.+1
Reinventing the wheel has it's own problems, not to mention the dominoes made of worm cans that cross breading brings.

stevedmc

10-20-2011, 05:09 PM

I'm thinking (other than trash, electrical) you might be using the wrong pumps or pluming depending on the carb(s)...cycling running wide open or labored, or, mostly pumping through the internal by-pass valve...The ones I see posted around here might be being over worked since they aren't pressure regulated and run ~2 times the pressure required by the float's needle valve, most of the time. They never rest (they are not made to take it like todays internal pumps...diferent "style"). In the old days, we used to use AC adjustable pressure regulated rail mounted pumps or one matched to (slightly above) the float requirements on racers to pitch mechanical pumps and get rid of the drag... The floats needle valve's on-off pressure is not that tight which allows for even more rest time...
Just a guess and food for thought...I'll see if I can dig up the post if you want or we can talk about it Saturday.

I was sort of thinking the pump I have might be too high of a psi pump, but Bill has installed pumps with these specs on many other cars without any problems. I'm not going to rule anything out, but like I said, it could just be a ground issue. We may or may not know the answer to this by the end of Saturday. If my pump fails then perhaps I need to look into a lower PSI pump. If my pump doesnt fail, then perhaps the direct ground connection resolved it. If it is ground related I will correctly fix it by eventually replacing the inertia switch and installing a full car ground bus.

Ron

10-20-2011, 05:19 PM

Do you know if they are locking down or ??? Ever open one up afterwords?
Bill using the same plumming, carb (I guess I know that answer;-)

This is where I don't say it would be easier to work out k-jet :devil:

Bitsyncmaster

10-20-2011, 06:20 PM

Maybe if you would leave the accumulator in when you go carb, it would ease the peak pressures in the pump. I never knew why Bill insisted on running a new line.

Ron

10-20-2011, 07:41 PM

Maybe if you would leave the accumulator in when you go carb, it would ease the peak pressures in the pump. I never knew why Bill insisted on running a new line.Worried about an accumulator full of fuel dumping in the engine or on the ground even when a "little" rollover breaks nothing...or #?Lbs? ;-)

Farrar

10-20-2011, 09:30 PM

I actually thought about installing a fuel pump meant for EFI (30 to 45 PSI) and then using an inline fuel pressure regulator to dial the pressure down to 6 PSI. You could probably use the stock fuel lines for this -- swap the regulator for the accumulator, perhaps? -- unless the regulator has a return line, in which case you'd have to mount it elsewhere. Some regulators have a return and some don't; I am not sure what might be required, but there's more than one way to skin a cat.

For what it's worth, I think running a fresh ground from the inertia switch would extend the lifespan of DeLorean fuel pumps.

Farrar

congerz83

10-21-2011, 07:17 AM

On a side note, I thought this looked too cool to pass up at a Ford swap-meet. Technically, it's fairly accurate. Only 4 cubes off the actual displacement.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q152/congerz83/923acc75.jpg

Spittybug

10-21-2011, 09:42 AM

Do any of you guys that have added air filters directly on top (like the picture above) of any engine type (K-Jet, Carb, EFI) believe that the incoming air is therefore much warmer than if piped in from the pontoon? Given the meager air flow through the engine compartment and the exhaust pipes, cats and muffler all radiating heat straight up to the engine cover and sucked into the air cleaner, I would think there would be a noticeable difference.

Many D owners go so far as to remove the so called stove pipe pre heaters for this very reason.

This can be moved to a new thread by admin if someone should believe it to be inappropriate in the carb thread. It is my observation however that many of the carb conversions seem to have their filters right on top, hence these guys are a good bunch to ask the question to.

Farrar

10-21-2011, 09:46 AM

I seem to recall Bill's answer to that was "It was good enough for the Pantera (http://www.flickr.com/photos/404creativestudios/225648150/)..."

I have thought about trying to add a fresh air duct to the air cleaner housing, but it would involve too much fabrication for my taste. Perhaps someone else will go this route and see if it adds any "performance."

Farrar

congerz83

10-21-2011, 11:02 AM

A Dual-Snorkel fabrication like this one could work.

http://compare.ebay.com/like/360155275023?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y

Then if you could find any of those Legend Turbo Delorean side-scoops to feed it, it might keep things cooler.

DMCVegas

10-21-2011, 01:01 PM

If I can help someone I will. K-Jet, carb or EFI alike. Can everyone claim the same?

Absolutely I can claim the same.

I honestly look at Carb conversions as just another form of customization. What the only thing that I ever took exception to was a couple of people people who rather than simply saying something like, "I just want to switch to a Carb because it's something I prefer.", they felt the need to justify the choice by putting down stock fuel injection and ultimately the car itself as well as other people. The thing is that you don't have to justify the switch at all. If you want to do it, and it especially helps you to keep the car on the road, and more importantly helps your enjoyment of your car, by all means go ahead. It was the context of the conversation before that led things in the wrong path. Here is the formula:

Negative Claim made against K-Jetroinc.
Rebuttal to claim offered.
WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO PERSECUTE ME!
Repeat. Cycle 2 switches claims to vehicle reliability. Cycle 3 adds personal attacks.

Like I say, to me a Carb is just a customization option. But attacks against the car are what really sparked the anger and escalated everything. It would have been like someone saying that they were doing a BTTF conversion simply because they didn't like the look of the DeLorean.

In any case though I'm just glad that this has all been put in the past so that people including myself can move on...

Admittedly I'm not gonna be nearly as much help as others with carbs having only ever really owned 1 car with a carb, and I sold it before wrenching on it. However, I do actually believe that I might be able to throw a little light onto the subject of the issue with Fuel Pumps. I think that I know what's going on, but it's gonna take a couple of stories here.

First story: Back in 2000 I was driving my car, and it just died for no reason at all. I couldn't figure it out (this was the day that my car almost got me killed trying to move it out of traffic). I got home and started checking for continuity. I was getting a solid 12V from the Feed jumping the RPM Relay and using an independent ground, but not when it Used the Ground wire. I don't remember the numbers, but it was pretty low and sporadic. So I was going to check continuity from the Inertia Switch's ground.

Now before going on, it's important to understand EVERYTHING that the Inertia Switch does, as well as what circuits it's integrated into as well as HOW it is integrated into them.

The first thing to know is that the Intertia Switch doesn't kill power to the Fuel Pump. It kills GROUND (or Earth as all the stickers on my car say). The 12V feed comes directly from the RPM Relay.

Second the Inertia Switch is not a SPST switch. It's a SPDT Switch where I believe the Single Pull inside of the Inertia Switch is the Ground. In position 1 with the Plunger down, the Switch connects to the Fuel Pump's Negative terminal in order to allow the pump to run. In Position 2 it connects to the Brown/Pink wire on the Unlock feed for the Door Switches and Warning Light on the A/C Panel. This is the Unlock Trigger Wire that senses (or in this case tricks) the Door Lock module into thinking that one of the doors has been unlocked and causes the other Door Lock Solenoid to pull open. Or in this case both.

Now for allot of you that didn't know this, you're probably wondering WTF?!? right about now. But the idea behind this was in case you ever got into an accident where the Inertia Switch was triggered, you doors would be unlocked for a rescue worker to easily gain entrance into the car to rescue you.

And now, back to my story:

When I went down to the Inertia Switch to check for Continuity on the Ground Circuit in Between, I discovered that the gray plug for the Inertia Switch was melted. Being tired, lazy, and already having the Inertia Switch trip on me once when I hit a pot hole I simply just unplugged it, and then cut the wiring harness for the fuel pump and ran a dedicated ground wire to the grounding point on the Radiator Bracket. Since that time it's ran strong and with the exception of a bad Charcoal Canister, I never had another problem again with the fuel pump.

Second Story: Back in 2004 I had my headlight switch start acting funny and working intermittently. I pulled it out one night after it refused to turn ANY of my lights on, and discovered that it had melted! I shoved a spare jumper wire that I had in to get the clearance lights on, and drove home with my high beams. Got home, found that the jumper wire was hot as hell! Checked all of my light bulbs, and discovered that my Left Front clearance lens had water stains inside, and had a cracked gasket. Pulled the lens off the fender and found that the bayonet socket was rusted beyond any repair. I ended up having to cut it out and then splice a new socket in as well as bought a new gasket. After that the jumper wire ran cool until I was able to put my spare switch in.

Now, what does any of this have to do with Fuel Pumps? Everything. See the rust in that light socket wasn't bad enough to cause a dead short, but it was enough to place extra draw onto the circuit. Not quite enough amperage at once to blow the fuse, but just enough to heat the wires significantly and damage the weakest link in the circuit.

I'd wager money that the problems with the Fuel Pumps are related to the Inertia Switch and corrosion inside. So far it's been the ONE place we can't get to, and I think this here is what's happening: Rust and corrosion forms and acts like a resistor that starts sucking amps. This places and extra load onto the circuit. And that load comes directly through the fuel pump. And seeing how fuel pumps are so susceptible to heat damage, I'd bet this is what's causing them. The K-Jet especially and EFI pumps probably have beefier components inside since they have to deal with higher pressures than Carb pumps. Not to mention that carb pumps probably also aren't usually installed with scenarios such as these where Inertia Switches are involved, let alone gas tanks next to heat sources.

On a side note I noticed that on Hervey's website he has a special note to check and make sure that the Plug for the Inertia Switch isn't melted. Hmmm...

I'd recommend checking resistance between the contacts on the Inertia Switch and see what you come up with. Likewise the next time someone complains about a noisy fuel pump and it's not an issue of the fuel lines touching the firewall or a seized diaphragm on the Carbon Canister, let's have them pull their Inertia Switch and check that plug for heat damage.

stevedmc

10-21-2011, 11:57 PM

So far the fuel pump is holding up with the new ground wire. So far I've driven at least 450 miles today without a single problem.

Right now I'm at a nice Walmart somewhere outside of Montgomery, AL. I'm about to turn the parking lot into a camp ground and the Delorean into a camper.

Ron

10-22-2011, 12:02 AM

Pleasant dreams!

stevedmc

10-23-2011, 08:03 PM

I am proud to say I drove a total of 1278 miles since Friday. My car made it to Sean's house, and then Ron's (way up in the mountains with a tuna fish can baffle) and all the way back down to my house without a single fuel delivery problem at all.

Shoot, I didn't have any problems on this trip except for some thug in Biloxi that wanted to buy my car at a gas station. He claimed to have $10k cash money on him and he wanted to buy the car on the spot.

I now declare my fuel pump issue to be resolved. The new ground seems to have taken care of the problem I had before.

congerz83

10-24-2011, 12:36 PM

stevedmc

10-24-2011, 01:02 PM

My car will idle high when first started then go back to normal. Then, even after warm, it'll idle at about 2,000RPM until I punch the gas quickly.
This is normal. The fast idle circuit is designed to idle the car high until your choke is completely open. This is to keep a cold engine from stalling.

It sounds like yours is set a little high. Turn the fast idle screw after starting the engine and keep in mind the engine needs to be cold when making these adjustments. I also like to hold the choke plate closed while I turn the fast idle screw. You may need to lightly tap the accelerator to engage the fast idle screw before making your adjustments as well.

I'm guessing this has something to do with the choke. Also, at times, after awhile of driving, the car will idle very low 450-500RPM it will also stall at times in during this "mode" of operation.
Once the car is warmed up the fast idle circuit no longer operates. The car switches over to the idle jets. You will need to adjust your idle jet screws while the engine is hot to get it to idle where you would like.

Also the car bogs down upon acceleration VERY heavily when you first start the car. Even during normal operation I cannot floor the accelerator without heavy "bucking" This carb conversion only has about 300miles since installation. I also changed the plugs shortly after the conversion.

Not quite sure what is going on there. How wide/small is your plug gap and are you using new plug wires, cap, rotor, and coil or are you using 30 year old stuff?

Have you talked to Bill about any of this?

congerz83

10-24-2011, 01:15 PM

This is normal. The fast idle circuit is designed to idle the car high until your choke is completely open. This is to keep a cold engine from stalling.

This is a "typo" on my behalf. The car does not idle high on start-up. It's as if the choke waits till it's already warmed up before it engages.

I have not spoken to Bill.

stevedmc

10-24-2011, 01:21 PM

This is a "typo" on my behalf. The car does not idle high on start-up. It's as if the choke waits till it's already warmed up before it engages.

I have not spoken to Bill.

I would close the choke plate by hand and see how the fast idle circuit acts. I'm shooting you a pm with Bill's email address. I'm sure he can answer your questions better than I can.

Ron

10-24-2011, 01:39 PM

I also have an idle problem... as well as an acceleration problem and a cold start problem... but I digress. My car will idle high when first started then go back to normal. Then, even after warm, it'll idle at about 2,000RPM until I punch the gas quickly. I'm guessing this has something to do with the choke. Also, at times, after awhile of driving, the car will idle very low 450-500RPM it will also stall at times in during this "mode" of operation. I'm also going to start keeping better track of my mileage because I think mine has dropped drasticly.

Also the car bogs down upon acceleration VERY heavily when you first start the car. Even during normal operation I cannot floor the accelerator without heavy "bucking" This carb conversion only has about 300miles since installation. I also changed the plugs shortly after the conversion.
Although a bit high (depending on ambient temperature) it is normal for most carb engines to gain RPMs as it warms and require you to pat the peddle to get the linkage to drop off of the high idle cam/step...

All of your symptoms could be the carb.
Easiest first:
Cold start and/or bogg before acceleration and/or 'bucking' - classic symptoms of the spray pump failure/adjustment.

Bogg and/or buck low- starve then surge of fuel (float adjustment, carb filter, fuel filter, pump strainer, pump...), timing

Cold start and/or high idle (especially if accompanied with smoke and/or rich smell) - choke setting (opens late) may set high idle cam, sticky linkage.

High/low idle- sticky linkage.

Air/fuel adjustments (depending on carb type) can screw everything up.
Most adjustments/settings are required to be done in a specific order.

I would let it sit all night (KEY), then make certain all linkage is free. Be sure to check with throttle AND choke in all positions and combinations! Next check spray pump sprays throughout its full stroke. Check choke settings (again, it MUST sit all night..but recheck with throttle ~1/2 open after warm up also).
Then go from there...If nothing found, go back to basics (timing, vacuum leaks, fuel quality, internal carb problem (save yourself some trouble and borrow one to test with if possible.))

EDIT: RE your correction WRT choke in morning... Befor you start you should hit the pedal once to let the choke reset after cooling. It will set the fast idle then, if required. If you don't, it stays where you left it when you last touched the pedal...

congerz83

10-24-2011, 01:56 PM

Cold start and/or bogg before acceleration and/or 'bucking' - classic symptoms of the spray pump failure/adjustment.

Is this also called the accelerator-pump?

Ron

10-24-2011, 01:58 PM

Is this also called the accelerator-pump?Yes.
(And my best guess so far ;-)

congerz83

10-24-2011, 02:00 PM

I really wish someone would've made a video on how to set these thing up.

Ron

10-24-2011, 02:05 PM

I really wish someone would've made a video on how to set these thing up.Google the carb number and you should be able to find a doc on the rebuilding proceedure..try to get a TRW or quality kit Rather than JiffyKit or such (more detail and illustrations).

stevedmc

10-24-2011, 02:10 PM

I really wish someone would've made a video on how to set these thing up.

Somebody did and they posted it on YouTube. Just search for Motorcraft 2100 rebuild.

Farrar

10-24-2011, 02:16 PM

The following procedure, adapted from another website, assumes that you have set the carb to "basic" settings of: idle air mixture screws out 2 turns, curb idle screw in 1.5 turns. This basic setting should allow the engine to start and idle, so that you can make the adjustments (on a fully warmed engine).

The first thing to do is not set the idle speed, but instead to set the idle mixture screws to lean best idle setting. First, turn in the mixture screws until the engine dies or runs worse. Then back out the screws ¼ to ½ turn at a time -- the engine should pick up speed and begin to smooth out. Back out ½ turn more, or until the screws do nothing or the engine runs worse, then turn back to the point where it ran its best.

Now that the mixture screws are at their best running location, you can adjust the idle speed screw. The screw will be sensitive and it should only take ¼ to ½ turns to achieve the idle speed you like.

Check and set idle to your driving preference. Put the car in gear and apply slight load, (AC on) and set the Idle as you like it. Don’t set it too high, as this will cause causes excessive clutch and brake wear.

Recheck timing and vacuum hook ups. Recheck mixture screw to lean best idle again. If all is still best and smoothest idle then confirm and note the final settings.

If you need a video, perhaps I can make one.

Farrar

congerz83

10-24-2011, 02:32 PM

Farrar, these notes are very helpful. A video of you applying the steps would be awesome! All of the carb-guys could use it as a reference. Not to mention the gift of my eternal grattitude.

Farrar

10-24-2011, 02:34 PM

I will try to make such a video. The weather this week should be perfect, and since I have the carb off the intake manifold it would be a good time to do so. However, I have no camera operator and my tripod's capabilities are somewhat limited. Still, I will try.

Farrar

Ron

10-24-2011, 02:36 PM

Recheck timing and vacuum hook ups.Changing either of these requires starting all over! (Except reconnecting vacuum advance line if required to be removed.)

Farrar

10-24-2011, 02:38 PM

Changing either of these requires starting all over! (Except reconnecting vacuum advance line if required to be removed.)

I think in this case they are saying that you need to double-check and make sure nothing has been accidentally moved while you were fiddling around elsewhere.

Farrar

stevedmc

10-24-2011, 02:57 PM

I'll see if I can beat Farrar to it and make my own "how to" video tonight. This will depend on when I get home and whether or not my retired neighbor is outside when I get home. I don't feel like screwing with my carburetor and listening to his expert advice.

I didnt watch this entire video but it seems to have good information on how to rebuild a 2100 carburetor. If you watch a few videos like this you will have a better understanding on how the thing works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4astN2GjXUY

Another good video but without sound

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=x0clnN22-oQ

Ron

10-24-2011, 03:02 PM

I think in this case they are saying that you need to double-check and make sure nothing has been accidentally moved while you were fiddling around elsewhere.

FarrarAh, OK!
(But I don't know how one would manage changing the timing by fiddling with the carb...;-)

stevedmc

10-24-2011, 03:05 PM

This is the document I used when I rebuilt my carb. Read it. It has a lot of good information in it. I found it to be more detailed than the youtube videos.

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/pdf_documents/motorcraft_2150_carb.pdf

For what its worth, I once had cold idle problems and it was due to me screwing with the choke. These instructions taught me how to properly adjust the choke.

Ron

10-24-2011, 03:19 PM

Looks VERY well written!
Now if there were such a thing as Delorean float and jet specs...

stevedmc

10-24-2011, 03:42 PM

Looks VERY well written!
Now if there were such a thing as Delorean float and jet specs...

I believe I am running size 48 jets and I followed the float instructions in the PDF document I posted. Float instructions are silly anyway. Just set the float to a reasonably level and the shut off valve will do its job.

Farrar

10-24-2011, 03:52 PM

(But I don't know how one would manage changing the timing by fiddling with the carb...;-)

Simple: you forgot to tighten the nut all the way and bumped the distributor with your elbow! :lol:

Farrar

Ron

10-24-2011, 05:11 PM

Simple: you forgot to tighten the nut all the way and bumped the distributor with your elbow! :lol:

Farrarlol
No that would be fiddleing with the distributor, Bill, I mean Farrar.:doorpeek:

DMCVegas

10-24-2011, 05:58 PM

I am proud to say I drove a total of 1278 miles since Friday. My car made it to Sean's house, and then Ron's (way up in the mountains with a tuna fish can baffle) and all the way back down to my house without a single fuel delivery problem at all

Out of curiosity, when you get a chance can you pull the gray plug on your Intertia Switch and check to see if it's in good shape?

congerz83

10-25-2011, 07:44 AM

pat the peddle

I really need to apply maximum force as fast as I can to get the RPM to drop. Sometimes it actually takes 7-8 times to accomplish this. :shameful: I'm afraid I'm going to put my foot through the floor.

Ok so the car sat since 4pm yesterday. I did NOT get a chance to adjust the carb yesterday. I figured I just give the update on today's behavior. It was a bit chilly this morning in the tri-state area. Pumped pedal twice, turned on, the car stayed on at regular "choke-less" idle without stalling. Let it run until I was ready to leave for work (10MIN). The car ran very well, but again, rpm shot up to 2000RPM once I got 1 mile down the road to the first traffic light. It's stayed like that through out most of the 15MIN ride to work.

Farrar

10-25-2011, 09:58 AM

Pumped pedal twice,

You should not have to "pump the pedal." Just touch the pedal until you hear the choke plates reset, then take your foot off the pedal and turn the key. If the car has only been sitting a day or so, there will still be plenty of fuel in the bowl.

Farrar

Ashyukun

10-25-2011, 10:49 PM

I also have an idle problem... as well as an acceleration problem and a cold start problem... but I digress. My car will idle high when first started then go back to normal. Then, even after warm, it'll idle at about 2,000RPM until I punch the gas quickly. I'm guessing this has something to do with the choke. Also, at times, after awhile of driving, the car will idle very low 450-500RPM it will also stall at times in during this "mode" of operation. I'm also going to start keeping better track of my mileage because I think mine has dropped drasticly.

Also the car bogs down upon acceleration VERY heavily when you first start the car. Even during normal operation I cannot floor the accelerator without heavy "bucking" This carb conversion only has about 300miles since installation. I also changed the plugs shortly after the conversion.

It sounds a LOT like you're having the same issues that I am. I've largely traced the problem down to a potential combination of two things: the electric choke not behaving properly and opening the choke plates as it's supposed to, and the fast idle cam 'resetting' and interfering with the normal operation of the throttle plates via the throttle.

I don't know exactly WHY it's doing this (or whether it's related to the potential issue with the choke), but as I understand it the fast idle is supposed to kick down after you 'bump' the throttle to get the throttle off the fast idle cam. On mine, every time I let the throttle go back to idle, it resets the fast idle cam and bumps the idle back up to around 2,000- and also wants to climb higher continually. If I'm standing there working the linkages by hand, I can pull on the throttle and the push down on the fast idle assembly/choke and it will pop to where it's supposed to be for normal running. If I don't let the throttle all the way back to idle, it will run the way it's supposed to- but if I let go of the throttle, it will pop the choke closed and reset the fast idle cam. I'm planning on pulling off the carb to test the choke and go through the procedure for setting the fast idle cam- though I don't know how it could have gotten messed up since I've not touched any of the adjustments on it.

As for your issue with the low idle, is that with nothing (A/C, fans, stereo, lights) running or with a lot of other engine loads running? At the beginning of the summer I had a similar problem when I started driving at night when I needed the A/C on- in the 'stock' setup, our carbs don't have any kind of mechanism to bump the idle up to account for loads like the A/C and headlights so if the idle is set without the engine being loaded when everything is turned on it can drag the idle down a lot. It may just be that you need to raise the idle a bit so with everything off it idles a bit high but then idles normally with what you're usually using turned on.

Ron

10-26-2011, 01:27 AM

Float instructions are silly anyway. Just set the float to a reasonably level and the shut off valve will do its job.
Hmmm...Why do you think that the settings are often down to the 1/64" then? There is more going on than keeping it from over flowing and not running out of gas on long full throttle runs...

I really need to apply maximum force as fast as I can to get the RPM to drop. Sometimes it actually takes 7-8 times to accomplish this. :shameful: I'm afraid I'm going to put my foot through the floor.

Ok so the car sat since 4pm yesterday. I did NOT get a chance to adjust the carb yesterday. I figured I just give the update on today's behavior. It was a bit chilly this morning in the tri-state area. Pumped pedal twice, turned on, the car stayed on at regular "choke-less" idle without stalling. Let it run until I was ready to leave for work (10MIN). The car ran very well, but again, rpm shot up to 2000RPM once I got 1 mile down the road to the first traffic light. It's stayed like that through out most of the 15MIN ride to work.
It's easy to miss the fork when installing the choke spring and it is possible on some 2100s to flip the choke spring making it work backwards (when you look at it installed in the cap, IIRC it should be wound clockwise (looks like a 6). Could explain a lot of your problems.??? ... check this when you do the things mentioned earlier. (Also, hold the throttle 1/2 open and turn the key on and see if the choke starts off ~closed and slowly opens fully, be patient...)
If at ANY time the choke plate is floppy, the spring has missed the fork.

You should not have to "pump the pedal." Just touch the pedal until you hear the choke plates reset, then take your foot off the pedal and turn the key. If the car has only been sitting a day or so, there will still be plenty of fuel in the bowl.+1/2 ;-)

Once fully on a cold engine is what every owners manual I have ever seen said (for "dumb" carburetors...primes the engine...and purges the pump)...more on cold days. Perhaps yours is running rich and/or it's been a lot warmer there???

Farrar

10-26-2011, 09:52 AM

Perhaps yours is running rich and/or it's been a lot warmer there???

I live in southeast Louisiana; it's always a lot warmer here (http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=70123).

Farrar

congerz83

10-26-2011, 10:09 AM

As for your issue with the low idle, is that with nothing (A/C, fans, stereo, lights) running or with a lot of other engine loads running?

This happens no matter what else I'm running. To tell the truth, it's the least common issue I have. The most common times it happens is at start-up. Usually after I've been driving for a while, and I stop to pick something up, and start the car again. But then again after 8 hours of sitting it started and ran in that 500rpm range for about a minute.

congerz83

11-20-2011, 11:40 PM

I have had the new fuel pump in for about 500 miles with no problem. I can't believe I'm actually impressed by that statement. My question is, where to I get the metal "cup" that the pump screws into with the filter on the other side? Is that a custom made "Bill Part?"

Farrar

11-21-2011, 03:06 PM

Bill makes those "fuel pump carriers" from aluminum 2" NPT pipe and pipe cap. He drills and taps threads for a coupler in the middle of the cap, so that you can screw the pickup filter onto one end of the coupler and the pump onto the other.

Farrar

stevedmc

12-26-2011, 02:48 PM

Merry Christmas Bill.

SamHill

12-26-2011, 02:56 PM

There is not enough carbtalk on this here dmc bbs. Thank god k-jet keeps screwing up so people on the other sections have something to argue about.

stevedmc

12-26-2011, 03:02 PM

There is not enough carbtalk on this here dmc bbs. Thank god k-jet keeps screwing up so people on the other sections have something to argue about.

Yeah but we aren't allowed to suggest carburetion to the poor K-Jet suckers when they post about their problems. We are only allowed to say the C word on this thread.

sean

12-26-2011, 03:04 PM

Merry Christmas Bill.
Bill doesn't celebrate Chriatmas. Christmas celebrates Bill, it caved in a while back.

There is not enough carbtalk on this here dmc bbs. Thank god k-jet keeps screwing up so people on the other sections have something to argue about.
Plenty of carb talk on the DML, you should check it out.

stevedmc

12-26-2011, 03:06 PM

Plenty of carb talk on the DML, you should check it out.

Frankly I don't understand Bill sending a link to his latest YouTube video which has more to do about a toy train than Deloreans. But I must admit it is pretty funny to see all of the drama.

Maybe I should send an email out to the DML each time I take one of my special baths. The next one is going to be in lime green Jello.

sean

12-26-2011, 03:11 PM

Frankly I don't understand Bill sending a link to his latest YouTube video which has more to do about a toy train than Deloreans. But I must admit it is pretty funny to see all of the drama.
I enjoyed the video, but enjoyed the chaos that followed even more. But yeah, why post it to the DML?

Maybe I should send an email out to the DML each time I take one of my special baths. The next one is going to be in lime green Jello.

You should do it but make it in bath of greens and pennies, you know new year and all.

stevedmc

12-26-2011, 03:13 PM

I enjoyed the video, but enjoyed the chaos that followed even more. But yeah, why post it to the DML?

You should do it but make it in bath of greens and pennies, you know new year and all.

Maybe I should take a bath in cabbage or whatever it is people eat for good luck. Anyway, a girl I know requested Jello a while back so her request is next on the list. She's better looking than you.

But I will be sure to include a toy Delorean in the tub so I can justify announcing my video on the DML.

SamHill

12-26-2011, 03:25 PM

but enjoyed the chaos that followed even more.

Just as I thought!

Admit it. Boring board is boring since Bill left. Ask him back. You know you want it.

stevedmc

12-26-2011, 03:29 PM

Just as I thought!

Admit it. Boring board is boring since Bill left. Ask him back. You know you want it.

Sean secretly enjoys the drama that Bill creates. Sean just doesn't want to be Bill's babysitter.

SamHill

12-26-2011, 03:29 PM

the poor K-Jet suckers

"Gee, guys, I sure am having a lot of problems with my fuel. Is there anyway I could spend $3K installing a delivery system that allows me to fiddle with the mixture using a laptop?"

EFI'ers: STAY OUT OF OUR THREAD. This is exclusively for us to make fun of you. Thanks in advance.

Sean secretly enjoys the drama that Bill creates. Sean just doesn't want to be Bill's babysitter.

It's no secret. Sean wants Bill back BAD.

sean

12-26-2011, 03:34 PM

Just as I thought!

Admit it. Boring board is boring since Bill left. Ask him back. You know you want it.

Ill admit two things:
1: I've enjoyed this place more since he left, not boring at all.
2: I've enjoyed the DML more since he made camp there, pretty funny stuff.

SamHill

12-26-2011, 03:36 PM

Ill admit two things:
1: I've enjoyed this place more since he left, not boring at all.
2: I've enjoyed the DML more since he made camp there, pretty funny stuff.

You need your Bill fix. We understand. It's nothing to be ashamed of!

sean

12-26-2011, 03:39 PM

You need your Bill fix. We understand. It's nothing to be ashamed of!

I told you, I get that through the DML. Just the right amount of Bill and none of the headache of members complaining about him here. Win-Win!

SamHill

12-26-2011, 03:42 PM

I told you, I get that through the DML. Just the right amount of Bill and none of the headache of members complaining about him here. Win-Win!

You can use a pipe in place of a syringe, but in the end, you're still puffing on the Bill Bong.

sean

12-26-2011, 03:47 PM

You can use a pipe in place of a syringe, but in the end, you're still puffing on the Bill Bong.

HA! Ok, sam, enjoy your fantasy.

stevedmc

12-26-2011, 03:56 PM

You can use a pipe in place of a syringe, but in the end, you're still puffing on the Bill Bong.

Thats pretty funny right there.

Ron

12-26-2011, 05:51 PM

"Gee, guys, I sure am having a lot of problems with my fuel. Is there anyway I could spend $3K installing a delivery system that allows me to fiddle with the mixture using a laptop?"Yes!!!

1. Purchase a really really nice laptop for $3k.
2. Log onto dmctalk.org. It's free.
3. Request help from the members. It's free too!

(And before you go there, carb systems can't stand 30 years of wear and tear or idiot POs either... ;-)

SamHill

12-26-2011, 06:02 PM

Yes!!!

1. Purchase a really really nice laptop for $3k.
2. Log onto dmctalk.org. It's free.
3. Request help from the members. It's free too!

(And before you go there, carb systems can't stand 30 years of wear and tear or idiot POs either... ;-)

Wow, I thought carb guys were the aggressors in sandbox cross-pissing. This is our tree house! No EFI girly men allowed!

stevedmc

12-26-2011, 06:23 PM

carb systems can't stand 30 years of wear and tear or idiot POs either... ;-)

I'm an idiot owner and my little Motorcraft 2100 seems to be doing just fine.

Ron

12-26-2011, 09:22 PM

Wow, I thought carb guys were the aggressors in sandbox cross-pissing. This is our tree house! No EFI girly men allowed!Nonsense. I offered a viable solution for fuel delivery system problems, at your request mind you, and I'm the agressor!?! ...Figures, coming from someone who puts a carb on a DeLorean, and a treehouse in their sandbox.

"EFI"?, "Girly" Do you screw everything up?...It wasn't me that wimped out when my K-Jet system needed attention...LMAO!

=====

Time will tell, Steve...

stevedmc

12-26-2011, 09:29 PM

Nonsense. I offered a viable solution for fuel delivery system problems, at your request mind you, and I'm the agressor!?! ...Figures, coming from someone who puts a carb on a DeLorean, and a treehouse in their sandbox.

"EFI"?, "Girly" Do you screw everything up?...It wasn't me that wimped out when my K-Jet system needed attention...LMAO!

=====

Time will tell, Steve...

In Ron's defense, it is pretty amazing watching him diagnose K-Jet problems. K-Jet screws up so much that I'm sure Ron gets to show off his expertise very frequently.

VBP1973

12-30-2011, 09:30 PM

How to contack bill ????????????

stevedmc

12-31-2011, 12:04 AM

How to contack bill ????????????

Bill can be reached on the DML. If you would rather email him privately shoot me and PM and I will pass his email address along to you.

SamHill

12-31-2011, 01:09 AM

How to contack bill ????????????

In Soviet Russia, Bill cotack you.

VBP1973

12-31-2011, 08:25 AM

in soviet russia, bill cotack you. i dont understand..

Is this supposed to be helpful ????

VBP1973

12-31-2011, 08:27 AM

bill can be reached on the dml. If you would rather email him privately shoot me and pm and i will pass his email address along to you.

thanks .. Still learning how to use computer...

SamHill

12-31-2011, 08:28 AM

i dont understand..

Is this supposed to be helpful ????

He is on the DML. I'm sure he'll respond to you.

stevedmc

12-31-2011, 08:32 AM

i dont understand..

Is this supposed to be helpful ????

Sam is just being an idiot.

VBP1973

01-02-2012, 06:16 AM

he is on the dml. I'm sure he'll respond to you.

DOES ANYONE have oppinion on carb for delorean????

thirdmanj

01-02-2012, 06:33 AM

DOES ANYONE have oppinion on carb for delorean????

Hell yes people have opinion on carb for DeLorean! It just isn't discussed so much these days, ever since Bill closed up shop on this forum and moved back to the DML. We suggest you contact him there. Or you can stay on this thread and see if stevedmc or somebody would be willing discuss the pros and cons (which is also debated).

sean

01-02-2012, 07:01 AM

How to contack bill ????????????

thanks .. Still learning how to use computer...

DOES ANYONE have oppinion on carb for delorean????

You may also consider wording your questions better. You may be learning how to use a computer but that doesn't mean you have to ask questions like you're texting on a phone.

Are you asking for opinions on if a carb is a good idea for a DeLorean or which carb should be used?

stevedmc

01-02-2012, 12:29 PM

DOES ANYONE have oppinion on carb for delorean????

If you want a garage queen that isn't capable of driving cross country, stick with K-jet. If you want something you can log 10,000 miles a year on, at low cost, and is easy to maintain, put a carb on it.

I believe Bill is putting complete kits together these days for a little over $1,000. He even arranges for free tech support and installation whenever possible.

Edit: I forgot to mention, but don't say anything about carbs anywhere else on DMCTalk or the DML. You will get hanged. This thread is safe territory though. You can post all day long here about reliable fuel delivery and you are safe as long as you don't start talking about mankinis.

thirdmanj

01-02-2012, 12:44 PM

If you want a garage queen that isn't capable of driving cross country, stick with K-jet....

Oooooh you're lucky we're in your territory here or I'd have a rebuttal for that!!! ;)

Ron

01-02-2012, 12:49 PM

DOES ANYONE have oppinion on carb for delorean????
Take it straight form the horse's mouth (or the other end in this particular case ;-)

"..don't say anything about carbs anywhere else on DMCTalk or the DML. You will get hanged."

=========

NUFF SAID!

DCUK Martin

01-02-2012, 12:52 PM

Did nobody else notice "Road Angles" ? :hihi2:

Reminds me of the bit in Hot Fuzz: "Mornin' Angle...."

Edit: I forgot to mention, but don't say anything about carbs anywhere else on DMCTalk or the DML. You will get hanged.

This is untrue. You will be "hanged" for preaching about how crap stuff is simply because you don't understand it and/or simply because you enjoy getting a rise out of everyone.

thirdmanj

01-02-2012, 01:04 PM

This is untrue. You will be "hanged" for preaching about how crap stuff is simply because you don't understand it and/or simply because you enjoy getting a rise out of everyone.

Martin really! This is their playground.... shoo shoo!

DCUK Martin

01-02-2012, 01:13 PM

Sorry.... http://forums.mg-rover.org/images/smilies/getmecoat.gif

stevedmc

01-02-2012, 01:16 PM

Don't listen to their garbage. Go on the EFI thread and see if any carb guys are talking smack about what they do. I stay away from the EFI thread because I am not interested in spending thoursands of dollars on something that may take 4 months to get working.

Shoot, some people even give up on EFI and go back to K-jet. I've glanced at that thread twice and it ain't pretty.

A carburetor on the hand is much more simple. Spend 45 minutes taking K-jet off the engine, 15 minutes installing a fuel pump, 5 minutes running a fuel line, 1 minute cutting your throttle cable down to size, plus another 3 minutes and 18 seconds to install the new manifold and carburetor. Thats 54 minutes and 18 seconds vs months of figuring out EFI.

No vendor offers a turn key EFI solution because it isn't available. Bill has at least a dozen conversions done, many done without his help installing, and they can be installed in about an hour.

Farrar

01-02-2012, 01:17 PM

Reminds me of the bit in Hot Fuzz: "Mornin' Angle...."

A friend of mine gave me that disc for Christmas. I just watched it last night and nearly fell off the sofa laughing. But what does "HF" really stand for? I imagine the title of the film was a joke as well.

Oh, and my opinion on carburetors: if you have a problem DeLorean that you need to sort out other problems on while keeping it operational, it's a nice thing to have around.

Farrar

VBP1973

01-02-2012, 08:06 PM

a friend of mine gave me that disc for christmas. I just watched it last night and nearly fell off the sofa laughing. But what does "hf" really stand for? I imagine the title of the film was a joke as well.

Oh, and my opinion on carburetors: If you have a problem delorean that you need to sort out other problems on while keeping it operational, it's a nice thing to have around.

Farrar

thanks

Don't listen to their garbage. Go on the EFI thread and see if any carb guys are talking smack about what they do. I stay away from the EFI thread because I am not interested in spending thoursands of dollars on something that may take 4 months to get working.

Shoot, some people even give up on EFI and go back to K-jet. I've glanced at that thread twice and it ain't pretty.

A carburetor on the hand is much more simple. Spend 45 minutes taking K-jet off the engine, 15 minutes installing a fuel pump, 5 minutes running a fuel line, 1 minute cutting your throttle cable down to size, plus another 3 minutes and 18 seconds to install the new manifold and carburetor. Thats 54 minutes and 18 seconds vs months of figuring out EFI.

No vendor offers a turn key EFI solution because it isn't available. Bill has at least a dozen conversions done, many done without his help installing, and they can be installed in about an hour.

thanks

Did nobody else notice "Road Angles" ? :hihi2:

Reminds me of the bit in Hot Fuzz: "Mornin' Angle...."

This is untrue. You will be "hanged" for preaching about how crap stuff is simply because you don't understand it and/or simply because you enjoy getting a rise out of everyone.

did anyone notice this ????!!!==*

stevedmc

01-02-2012, 08:57 PM

did anyone notice this ????!!!==*

Yep. Martin sucks.

thirdmanj

01-02-2012, 09:09 PM

Yep. Martin sucks.

http://img.tapatalk.com/46a05796-634a-5565.jpg

Heh heh heh... I've been just aching to use this one

stevedmc

01-04-2012, 06:42 PM

Thirdmanj sucks too.

thirdmanj

01-04-2012, 07:49 PM

Thirdmanj sucks too.

:werd:

Ron

01-04-2012, 07:56 PM

:werd:There you go starting a bunch of crap, again!

Iznodmad

01-04-2012, 08:26 PM

I can't believe I am actually going to post this......but........

I love a good carb/Bill/minions/hack-job/POS bashing as the next guy, but exactly why do we let this toilet bowl thread continue when the great carb king/martyr is gone and never to return anyway? Ask Bill what? He is not here! I said in the old talk.com days that eventually this would happen and there wouldn't be support by the maker and by-golly/shucks it appears I was right. That is, unless you follow him over to the other list that he has turned into his new toilet bowl. The leader has deserted and left his followers to fend for themselves. Now this thread seems to be a haven for troll bait, and we have another recent tangent anyway to continue the fun. Anyone else wanna lock dance, or am I raining on the parade?:closedtop: Let the flaming begin!:flamed:

thirdmanj

01-04-2012, 08:40 PM

sean

01-04-2012, 09:24 PM

Locking this thread down would be like book burning. It's a safe haven for our carbureted brethren. They get enough shit as it is, they need to have their own space. You have to admit, this is a very iconic thread. Besides, I think stevedmc is awaiting the second comming....

We'll leave it open for now because I believe that there needs to be a place for legitimate carb questions to go. That said, future posts like the following will be removed and repeat offenders will be moderated.

:werd:

Thirdmanj sucks too.

stevedmc

01-05-2012, 01:34 PM

sean

01-05-2012, 01:39 PM

What in the world are you talking about? Myself, and several other people communicate with Bill on a weekly basis.

And Bill might not be here physically, but as many people have realized by now, Bill's spirit lives within me.

Plus, he is here just about every day reading the threads so if someone was trying to get him he'd be aware of it.

stevedmc

01-05-2012, 02:05 PM

Plus, he is here just about every day reading the threads so if someone was trying to get him he'd be aware of it.

Thats awesome that you can see his activity. I wonder if he still gets email notifications when we post to this thread.

sean

01-05-2012, 02:09 PM

Thats awesome that you can see his activity. I wonder if he still gets email notifications when we post to this thread.

No idea if he is subscribed to this thread or not, but he does still read here.

stevedmc

01-05-2012, 05:53 PM

Wow. I just realized the EFI guys have a whole "sub forum" of their own. There are 13 different threads in there for different topics/problems related to EFI. I had no idea it took that effort to support EFI.

Carburetors are really simple. We have no need for 13 different threads to get a carburetor going.

Put a bowl of fuel on top of the engine, a low pressure fuel pump in the tank, run a new fuel line, and drive until you hit Bambi.

Farrar

01-05-2012, 06:12 PM

I humbly request that this be treated seriously as a "Carburetor Q&A" thread.

How about we all make a resolution to be less snarky and trollish in 2012?

Farrar

sean

01-05-2012, 08:05 PM

I humbly request that this be treated seriously as a "Carburetor Q&A" thread.

How about we all make a resolution to be less snarky and trollish in 2012?

Farrar

Hey man, I'm on board with this. You need to sit your Louisianan brother about it tough.

SamHill

01-05-2012, 08:38 PM

I humbly request that this be treated seriously as a "Carburetor Q&A" thread.

How about we all make a resolution to be less snarky and trollish in 2012?

Farrar

I look forward to this resolution being applied equally to all members.

stevedmc

01-05-2012, 08:50 PM

I look forward to this resolution being applied equally to all members.

You should see the nasty PM that Spittybug sent me. The subject of his email was rather vulgar.

SamHill

01-05-2012, 09:05 PM

You should see the nasty PM that Spittybug sent me. The subject of his email was rather vulgar.

Oh, what the heck. I suppose you would be the aggressor for posting it here. I would rather like to see it! [email protected]

SamHill

01-05-2012, 09:31 PM

Classy. Thanks!

Ron

01-05-2012, 09:35 PM

And Bill might not be here physically, but as many people have realized by now, Bill's spirit lives within me.I believe brother, I believe!...I just can't figure out why you didn't name the thread, "Ask Steve...", seriously.

==========

now with 50% less snark
Let's see....

Wow. I just realized the EFI guys have a whole "sub forum" of their own. There are 13 different threads in there for different topics/problems related to EFI. I had no idea it took that effort to support EFI.

Carburetors are really simple. We have no need for 13 different threads to get a carburetor going.
Put a bowl of fuel on top of the engine, a low pressure fuel pump in the tank, run a new fuel line, and drive until you hit Bambi.

...yep, looks ~50-50 to me!

stevedmc

01-05-2012, 09:45 PM

I believe brother, I believe!...I just can't figure out why you didn't name the thread, "Ask Steve...", seriously.

I think it would be hilarious is someone renamed the thread to "Ask Bill's cult members about carbing a DeLorean and other K-Jet/Carb tangets".

Sean could change it to "Ask Steve" but honestly there are other people that contribute.

Ron

01-05-2012, 09:51 PM

Sean could change it to "Ask Steve" but honestly there are other people that contribute.Yeah, everyone but Bill :hysterical:

stevedmc

01-05-2012, 10:00 PM

This thread is an excelent example of the differences between some people. I actually like the humor that goes on in this thread and hope it can last without Sean putting an end to it.

What Ron said is funny. If you go into an EFI thread and say something funny it just offends everyone and your post gets deleted.

stevedmc

01-09-2012, 05:22 PM

I'm glad carb conversions don't use fuel accumulators.

DCUK Martin

01-10-2012, 01:38 PM

This thread is mostly a sand box for the people who enjoy trolling the rest of the forum winding everyone up with sideways comments about how great carbs are or how dumb K-Jet is

EFI got a sub forum because people want to discuss EFI.

(Which BTW is more complex and tough to DIY because it can do a lot more than either K-Jet or a carburetor).

sean

01-10-2012, 01:55 PM

This thread is mostly a sand box for the people who enjoy trolling the rest of the forum winding everyone up with sideways comments about how great carbs are or how dumb K-Jet is

This is true but we are pushing through Farrar's idea of a "Trollfree", or at least trollite, year. Put out two sparks just this moring, one from each side. So lets please keep this in mind and move ahead this year sans fuel delivery trolling.

DCUK Martin

01-10-2012, 02:57 PM

But what does "HF" really stand for? I imagine the title of the film was a joke as well.

Not really - "the fuzz" = "the cops" and "Hot Fuzz" combines yer typical OTT hollywood-esque cop movie title with the daft english country-bumpkin vernacular... much like the film really.

Listen to the cast commentary - it's well worthwhile.

Farrar

01-10-2012, 02:59 PM

Martin, I was referring specifically to the "HF" painted onto the top of the car. But thanks, I will check out the commentary. :-)

Farrar

SamHill

01-10-2012, 03:27 PM

Ron

01-10-2012, 03:46 PM

EFI is just another "viable alternative fuel delivery system for our silly little cars."
An excellent tangent IMHO.

SamHill

01-10-2012, 04:11 PM

EFI is just another "viable alternative fuel delivery system for our silly little cars."
An excellent tangent IMHO.

You seem to be lost. This thread is for carbs. Below please find a few links that are devoted to EFI talk in "DMCTALK.ORG's Happy Fun EFI Corner© ."

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2070-Spittybug-2329-Peugeot-604-manifold-custom-conversion
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2103-Cineman-01748-3.0lt-twin-turbo-Italy
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2564-Reasons-for-EFI
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2504-Getting-ready-to-go-ignition-control
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2445-Megasquirt-EFI-conversion
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2081-AdmiralSenn-(Adam-S.)-3416-quot-Christine-quot-Megasquirt-conversion
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2080-Opethmike-Z7U-manifold-custom-conversion
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2083-Spittybug-Designs-for-converting-stock-setup-to-EFI
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1706-Fully-documented-EFI-conversion

stevedmc

01-10-2012, 04:17 PM

This thread is mostly a sand box for the people who enjoy trolling the rest of the forum winding everyone up with sideways comments about how great carbs are or how dumb K-Jet is

I would suggest you play in your sandbox while we play in ours.

You won't find me in the EFI forum posting stuff in there since EFI on a Delorean is of little interest to me right now. I'll admit, if I had a ton of money I would drop my car off at DPI and let Josh have his way with the car.

Unfortunately, I am white trash and don't have tons of money. Carburetion works for me, my puny mind can understand it, and it doesn't drain my wallet.

If you have no interest in carburetion then why do monitor and post on this thread?

The Aviator

01-10-2012, 06:24 PM

stevedmc

01-10-2012, 06:31 PM

hey guys, its been awhile. i was curious i was scanning threw ebay and found a bunch of 2100's already rebuilt for jeeps. i do remember reading something about the jeeps and that those carbs dont work for us

is that true? where are u guys getting the carbs?

danny

A junk yard is your best bet to get a 2100. The Jeep ones on eBay are basically junk yard finds that someone rebuilt and is selling at a premium.

All you need is a Motorcraft 2100 carb with 1.08 venturis. They cost about $30 at my local junk yard. A rebuild kit will cost you another $20 at Autozone, and you can order a pair of 48 size yets for around $5 on ebay. I've got no clue what the Jeep guys are selling carbs for right now but if you do all the work yourself you can get a nice carb for around $50.

Of course, you could just do what I did, be lazy, and call Bill. He has already done all the work and includes beautiful carburetors in his complete kits.

How are things going along with your conversion? I thought Bill had already sent you a box of parts.

Farrar

01-10-2012, 06:33 PM

Hi, Danny.

Generally, the Jeeps use carburetors with more flow than what we need for our little engines. What most of the carbureted D owners use is a Motorcraft 2100 or 2150 with 1.08 stamped on the side. This is a carburetor with venturi sized appropriately for the Ford/Mercury 2.8L V6 engine, so with one of those and appropriate-sized jets installed you will be good to go.

Edit: I see Steve posted while I was writing the above. I would add that the rebuilt carbs are sometimes not as good as ones that have not been rebuilt, because the rebuilders will sandblast them to get the corrosion off. This makes them look great, but they have lost the protective zinc plating on some steel parts, making them prone to rust. My carb was "professionally" rebuilt and is now rusting because my car lives outside in a high-humidity area. If I had known better, I would have bought an un-rebuilt carburetor and rebuilt it myself, because of this rust problem.

Farrar

The Aviator

01-10-2012, 07:00 PM

A junk yard is your best bet to get a 2100. The Jeep ones on eBay are basically junk yard finds that someone rebuilt and is selling at a premium.

All you need is a Motorcraft 2100 carb with 1.08 venturis. They cost about $30 at my local junk yard. A rebuild kit will cost you another $20 at Autozone, and you can order a pair of 48 size yets for around $5 on ebay. I've got no clue what the Jeep guys are selling carbs for right now but if you do all the work yourself you can get a nice carb for around $50.

Of course, you could just do what I did, be lazy, and call Bill. He has already done all the work and includes beautiful carburetors in his complete kits.

How are things going along with your conversion? I thought Bill had already sent you a box of parts.

Hi, Danny.

Generally, the Jeeps use carburetors with more flow than what we need for our little engines. What most of the carbureted D owners use is a Motorcraft 2100 or 2150 with 1.08 stamped on the side. This is a carburetor with venturi sized appropriately for the Ford/Mercury 2.8L V6 engine, so with one of those and appropriate-sized jets installed you will be good to go.

Edit: I see Steve posted while I was writing the above. I would add that the rebuilt carbs are sometimes not as good as ones that have not been rebuilt, because the rebuilders will sandblast them to get the corrosion off. This makes them look great, but they have lost the protective zinc plating on some steel parts, making them prone to rust. My carb was "professionally" rebuilt and is now rusting because my car lives outside in a high-humidity area. If I had known better, I would have bought an un-rebuilt carburetor and rebuilt it myself, because of this rust problem.

Farrar

guys thank you both for the replies, so rebuilding them doesnt seem to hard? im going to have to go hunting in yards, the local yards only keep things 96 and up now, i have to hike aways to get to a older yard...

so im looking for a carb that has 1.08 stamped on the side, im not too afraid of the sand blasting because honestly thats what i would do ( we have our own cabinet) and then have the castings powder coated

as for my progress i havent started, just gather info so, i want to delete all the extra wires in the engine bay, and bill gave me some diagrams but i lost everything once my computer crashed (malware yay!!)

once my tax return comes in im ordering joshs cams, and pulling the k-jet and putting on my manifold i got from australia
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcraft-Autolite-2100-F-2-2V-carb-63-352-390-Ford-C3AF-F-rebuilt-1-14-/320784531245?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item4ab03f7f2d#ht_500wt_1201

and mocking up some stuff to make adapter plates

while i have the motor out, im going to have the timing chain cover, valve covers, manifold all powder coated, along with the oil pan, im also going to order joshs long tube exhaust

i also want to get the new flex alite fans, and need a new alternator... i think thats all! lol

again thanks
danny

Ron

01-11-2012, 01:06 AM

You seem to be lost. This thread is for carbs. Below please find a few links that are devoted to EFI talk in "DMCTALK.ORG's Happy Fun EFI Corner© ."

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2070-Spittybug-2329-Peugeot-604-manifold-custom-conversion
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2103-Cineman-01748-3.0lt-twin-turbo-Italy
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2564-Reasons-for-EFI
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2504-Getting-ready-to-go-ignition-control
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2445-Megasquirt-EFI-conversion
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2081-AdmiralSenn-(Adam-S.)-3416-quot-Christine-quot-Megasquirt-conversion
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2080-Opethmike-Z7U-manifold-custom-conversion
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2083-Spittybug-Designs-for-converting-stock-setup-to-EFI
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1706-Fully-documented-EFI-conversion

Not lost...just answering a carb thread question in the thread it was asked in...the guy must have misread the threads title. Thanks for trying to help tho!

joebob101

01-11-2012, 09:18 PM

It's a cold day and the D hasn't been started for over 60 days. I needed to move it off my lift so I could do some work on my flathead rat rod. 3 seconds of cranking and the D is purring like a kitten. This is the reason I got rid of that troublesome Kjet and put on a Bill carb. There's nothing like a smooth running, easy starting, trouble free internal combustion engine. I'm very pleased with my conversion.

Farrar

01-12-2012, 09:36 AM

not too afraid of the sand blasting because honestly thats what i would do ( we have our own cabinet) and then have the castings powder coated

Oh yeah -- I forgot you work at a hot rod shop. I just have the great outdoors as my workshop. Maybe I need to get a new job so I have access to all the expensive toys ;)

I'd like to see pictures of the results -- never seen powdercoated carburetor parts before! :)

Farrar

congerz83

01-12-2012, 10:59 AM

There's nothing like a smooth running, easy starting, trouble free internal combustion engine. I'm very pleased with my conversion.

Glad to see your conversion is working well for you. I unfortunately can't repeat any statement that you've made without my wooden nose growing to dangerous lengths.

Iznodmad

01-12-2012, 11:15 AM

Glad to see your conversion is working well for you. I unfortunately can't repeat any statement that you've made without my wooden nose growing to dangerous lengths.

Simple/honest question about that and not trying to start a fight or troll with you or anyone else in the carb room here. What customer service attempts have been made to correct this for you? Obviously you are dealing with an individual and not an official business entity, and this very situation is something that has concerned me for some time.

congerz83

01-12-2012, 11:41 AM

Simple/honest question about that and not trying to start a fight or troll with you or anyone else in the carb room here. What customer service attempts have been made to correct this for you? Obviously you are dealing with an individual and not an official business entity, and this very situation is something that has concerned me for some time.

PM Sent...

sean

01-12-2012, 12:22 PM

PM Sent...

Thank you!

content22207

02-07-2012, 05:12 PM

[admin edit]flames put out[/admin edit]
For the morbidly curious, while I have been erased from existence, I helped two owners convert to carburetion (and helped them install ground buses), started working with two more owners, and modified #2508's trailing arms to accept the strongest bolts readily available retail -- even stronger than bolts sold by any of the vendors.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Farrar

02-07-2012, 07:12 PM

Welcome back, Bill.

SamHill

02-07-2012, 07:24 PM

He has returned! Good to hear from you. Any stories to tell about the conversions? What condition were the cars? Massive neglect?

thirdmanj

02-07-2012, 07:29 PM

What up B-Money!!? It hasn't been the same without you! Steve has been trying his damndest to keep your seat warm, but aaahh well.. ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!!!

sean

02-07-2012, 08:38 PM

Yes....welcome back.

flyinglow

02-07-2012, 09:04 PM

He has returned! Good to hear from you. Any stories to tell about the conversions? What condition were the cars? Massive neglect?

Here's the story on one of Bill's conversion. I found a D in a field several years ago. It took a while to find someone who knew about the car. I just glanced at it and noted a pristine grooved, gas flapped hood and a nice drivers side front quarter panel so I figured it was worth a few thousand at least. I was already restoring another D so I decided to buy that one for parts.

The car had a collapsed fuel system for sure as the gas tank was out of the car, the fuel pump boot was over 50% melted away, and the engine compartment had that smell. So I raided a lot of parts off of it for my other D. One day I noticed that the parts D was actually in better shape in a lot of ways than my main project and I was wondering what the condition of the engine, auto transmission, and other major systems might be. I absolutely did not want to buy a complete KJet rebuild for a car that might not even be reasonably restored so I thought about one of the first things I heard Bill say. Carbing is a quick, less expensive, easy way to get a car running and drivable as you evaluate and work on the rest. And you can go back to KJet for the cost of a new throttle cable.

Another angle is that I am an old guy who has worked with carbs on cars long before many of you were born. Here's the problem. The car has been sitting and not on the road for at least 10 years. I had my doubts that it would run even with the carb. Bill comes to my house, we bolt on the manifold with carb, run the fuel line, wire in a fuel pump, turn the key and it starts. I started to say it purrred like a kitten but it was more like a lion since the muffler was missing.

As I stood there and stared at the smoothly running engine I could not shake the feeling that this must be how Igor felt as he watched Dr. Frankenstein admire his work and revel in his masterpiece as it took it's first naturally aspirated breath. I have to tell you, to see that car running with all those hoses, wire connectors, and pipes sticking up everywhere not connected to anything was exhilarating.

I spent months learning and working on my other D's KJet and I'm happy for the experience but there is something about the elegant simplicity of the carb. I'm keeping all of the KJet parts that I removed and may one day convert it back or at least pass it on to the new owner if I get too old to mess with it. But I will never forget the day that engine went from junk yard ready to smooth idle in a few hours.

Carb, CFI, EFI, it's all good.

sean

02-07-2012, 09:30 PM

Great story, I'm glad you've had such a great success with your situation. Welcome to the forum!

Here's the story on one of Bill's conversion. I found a D in a field several years ago. It took a while to find someone who knew about the car. I just glanced at it and noted a pristine grooved, gas flapped hood and a nice drivers side front quarter panel so I figured it was worth a few thousand at least. I was already restoring another D so I decided to buy that one for parts.

The car had a collapsed fuel system for sure as the gas tank was out of the car, the fuel pump boot was over 50% melted away, and the engine compartment had that smell. So I raided a lot of parts off of it for my other D. One day I noticed that the parts D was actually in better shape in a lot of ways than my main project and I was wondering what the condition of the engine, auto transmission, and other major systems might be. I absolutely did not want to buy a complete KJet rebuild for a car that might not even be reasonably restored so I thought about one of the first things I heard Bill say. Carbing is a quick, less expensive, easy way to get a car running and drivable as you evaluate and work on the rest. And you can go back to KJet for the cost of a new throttle cable.

Another angle is that I am an old guy who has worked with carbs on cars long before many of you were born. Here's the problem. The car has been sitting and not on the road for at least 10 years. I had my doubts that it would run even with the carb. Bill comes to my house, we bolt on the manifold with carb, run the fuel line, wire in a fuel pump, turn the key and it starts. I started to say it purrred like a kitten but it was more like a lion since the muffler was missing.

As I stood there and stared at the smoothly running engine I could not shake the feeling that this must be how Igor felt as he watched Dr. Frankenstein admire his work and revel in his masterpiece as it took it's first naturally aspirated breath. I have to tell you, to see that car running with all those hoses, wire connectors, and pipes sticking up everywhere not connected to anything was exhilarating.

I spent months learning and working on my other D's KJet and I'm happy for the experience but there is something about the elegant simplicity of the carb. I'm keeping all of the KJet parts that I removed and may one day convert it back or at least pass it on to the new owner if I get too old to mess with it. But I will never forget the day that engine went from junk yard ready to smooth idle in a few hours.

Carb, CFI, EFI, it's all good.

dvonk

02-08-2012, 12:31 AM

welcome back, Bill.

Here's the story on one of Bill's conversion...

great 'resurrection' story, and welcome to the forum! :wave:

flyinglow

02-08-2012, 05:08 PM

great 'resurrection' story, and welcome to the forum! :wave:

Actually I was a member of the old forum for quite a while but I have never posted much. BTW I tossed on a rear brake caliper, pumped up two flat tires, started the engine, put it in Drive, gave it some gas, and when the two front rotors that were frozen to the pads broke free I was able to ease it out of the shop and then backed it back in. Another giant step forward. Next, I will replace some missing coolant hoses, fill it with water, and see if I can find all the places it will leak.

Mike Z

02-08-2012, 09:58 PM

Welcome back, Bill!! Now start accepting friend requests on facebook (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).

stevedmc

02-09-2012, 05:05 AM

That's not Bill. It's an imposter who hacked his account and is pretending to be him.

Ron

02-09-2012, 07:36 AM

Welcome back, Bill!! Now start accepting friend requests on facebook (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).
+1

lol...I have a friend request pending for him since a few days of registering here.

stevedmc

02-09-2012, 08:00 AM

+1

lol...I have a friend request pending for him since a few days of registering here.

He won't accept your friend request on Facebook unless you are a woman.

SamHill

02-09-2012, 08:38 AM

He won't accept your friend request on Facebook unless you are a woman.

Good policy, can't say I disagree.

Michael

02-09-2012, 08:55 AM

Bill's back...yay

http://bluntobject.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/joker-sarcastic-clap1.gif

Ron

02-09-2012, 01:15 PM

He won't accept your friend request on Facebook unless you are a woman.No, here.

(There's a mankini joke here somewhere...but I dare not ;-)

thirdmanj

02-09-2012, 01:17 PM

Bill's back...yay

http://bluntobject.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/joker-sarcastic-clap1.gif

"Did I ever tell you where I got these carbs?...."

sean

02-09-2012, 01:24 PM

"Did I ever tell you where I got these carbs?...."
That's pretty good right there. :hihi2:

Michael

02-09-2012, 03:08 PM

LOL...wanna see me make K-Jet disappear?

Farrar

02-09-2012, 04:15 PM

wanna see me make K-Jet disappear?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Zippo-Slim-1968-Lit.jpg/220px-Zippo-Slim-1968-Lit.jpg

Ron

02-09-2012, 04:55 PM

So that's what really happen to Sparky -- you tried to make...oh yeah, nevermind.

Farrar

02-09-2012, 04:59 PM

So that's what really happen to Sparky -- you tried to make...oh yeah, nevermind.

Huh?

Ron

02-09-2012, 05:02 PM

S/he was already carbed at the time...
[ducking tomatoes]

Farrar

02-09-2012, 05:05 PM

You were already carbed at the time...
[ducking tomatoes]

Correct. Had it been a gasoline fire, I'm sure the damage would have been much worse. Fortunately, it was an electrical fire and the damage was limited to the area of the distributor cap. (You know the story, right?)

Anyway, there's not much point berating carburetors on here anymore. Rumour has it that Bill is starting his own web-based bulletin board.....

Ron

02-09-2012, 05:40 PM

Correct. Had it been a gasoline fire, I'm sure the damage would have been much worse. Fortunately, it was an electrical fire and the damage was limited to the area of the distributor cap. (You know the story, right?)

Anyway, there's not much point berating carburetors on here anymore. Rumour has it that Bill is starting his own web-based bulletin board.....
Yes, I obviously know the story...
But I don't see why you seem to be implying I was berating carburetors, especially when I have tried to help carbers as much if not more than anyone here, other than Bill... {I wonder how long before he bans himself...}
Since ribbing you even in the middle of everyone cutting up gets your panties in a wad, I will not do it again, sorry... :rolleyes1:

We now return you to your regularly scheduled K-Jet bashing...

sean

02-09-2012, 07:48 PM

Anyway, there's not much point berating carburetors on here anymore. Rumour has it that Bill is starting his own web-based bulletin board.....

I can't wait to join it.

DMC5180

02-09-2012, 08:06 PM

I just want to know when Mr. Bill is going start contributing to this thread set aside for him.

According to the Public Members list and his own membership profile he last visited here Feb 8, 2012 @ 12:17AM :ohcrap: You've been outed :biggrin:

Michael

02-09-2012, 08:07 PM

I can't wait to join it.

Bill eagerly awaits his chance to finally put you in "Time Out"

sean

02-09-2012, 08:10 PM

Bill eagerly awaits his chance to finally put you in "Time Out"

I'll try not to let him down.....:D

Now seriously, I do wish him great success with it and sure, I'd join it like any other DeLorean forum. Be interesting to see how it unfolds.

stevedmc

02-10-2012, 04:38 AM

I can't wait to join it.

Rumor has it you will be placed on timeout.

VBP1973

02-10-2012, 08:28 AM

Rumor has it you will be placed on timeout.
what does timeout refer too???

sean

02-10-2012, 08:36 AM

what does timeout refer too???

http://urlybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Timeout.jpg

:D

It just means you've been moved to a moderated list where your posts require approval from one of the Admins. At least that's what it means here.

stevedmc

02-10-2012, 09:20 AM

I was about to make a redneck comment until I saw Sean's attachment.

Farrar

02-10-2012, 09:30 AM

I don't see why you seem to be implying I was berating carburetors

You seem to have misunderstood my comment, Ron. There was no implication intended. I was speaking generally about two things:

1. Bill plans to start his own DMC bulletin board, and
2. there really is no point in anyone berating carburetors

(It goes without saying that there's no point in anyone berating anything, because it's pointless bullshit which wastes the time and energy of everyone involved, but if I decide to try to stop people from being immature on the Internet I might as well just decide to fly a moon rocket made entirely of Marzipan and Cheese Doodles. I simply decided to mention carburetors since -- amazingly -- they seem to be mentioned a lot on this particular thread.)

Okeydokey! :)

P.S. I hope that I am not yet again misinterpreted as trying to stir the pot, because I am unsubscribing from this thread.

stevedmc

02-10-2012, 10:45 AM

I think I deleted Bill's email about the new cult forum. Does anyone have the url?

congerz83

02-10-2012, 12:13 PM

I think I deleted Bill's email about the new cult forum. Does anyone have the url?

Hmmm... E-mail? I guess Bill is being selective about the carb owners he's letting in on this...

stevedmc

02-10-2012, 02:23 PM

Hmmm... E-mail? I guess Bill is being selective about the carb owners he's letting in on this...

Are you on the DML?

congerz83

02-10-2012, 02:31 PM

No. I find it a P.I.T.A. to navigate.

stevedmc

02-10-2012, 02:33 PM

No. I find it a P.I.T.A. to navigate.

Well that might be why you didn't get the email. He is pretty active on the DML these days.

The moderators put up with him on the DML for some reason but on here he doesn't seem to last very long.

VBP1973

02-10-2012, 05:00 PM

what is the DML? how do smoe one find DML On computer??

DMCMW Dave

02-10-2012, 05:22 PM

what is the DML? how do smoe one find DML On computer??

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/

www.dmcnews.com

congerz83

02-11-2012, 12:10 AM

Well that might be why you didn't get the email. He is pretty active on the DML these days.

The moderators put up with him on the DML for some reason but on here he doesn't seem to last very long.

F The DML. I paid for the kit, it was intalled to Bill's specs and I'm sure he has my email. He should let ALL of his "customers" in on his new "carb forum". There's no excuse.

Why should I have to join another forum to get on Bill's e-mail list? I was introduced to him here, but his status on DMCTalk should have no bearing on this situation.

content22207

02-11-2012, 12:56 AM

Slow down and take a deep breath. Steve, Farrar, and Jim were the first to know about the new forum because they already had ongoing eMail contact with me. I just happened to mention it in passing as we discussed other things as well.

Speaking of which: my eMail address has not changed. It is the same address I have had since 1998: brobertson(at)carolina.net. Not many people can say that their eMail address has remained constant for nearly 15 years. I can. Drop me a line sometime -- I do respond.

Speaking of which: do not assume that just because you posted something on this forum, I would actually be able to respond here. I am not allowed to post directly. Every single word I write has to be scrutinized, evaluated, and approved by the moderators before any of them are posted (and as my first message back earlier this week shows, the moderators continue to censor me, which is particularly ironic when you remember what J*** B*******, R***** (DMCV****), and others wrote on the old .com forum). How many words of mine have been deleted from this forum over the years? I shudder to think (speaking of which, where did the posts between 9/25/2011 and 10/7/2011 go? They used to be here...).

Anyway, the new forum is up & running (no thanks to my domain host...). I won't post the URL here. Send me an eMail and I'll give it to you directly. Please remember that the new forum is not actively moderated. I will make structural changes as necessary, and if traffic ever warrants I will back it up, but I'll be damned if I am going to pretend to be some sort of Internet policeman. Anyone who uses it will be accountable to him or herself. I have full faith & confidence that grown up human beings can police themselves.

And if they can't, the domain expires 2/8/2013 should someone else want to become the next Dread Pirate Roberts.

I am going to screen capture this post in the editor window for comparison it to the version DMCTalk moderators allow, if at all.

In the immortal words of Edward R. Murrow: Good Night, and Good Luck. I wish you all the best of success in your endeavors.

Bill Robertson
#5939