New carpet, soundproofing, and dynamat - any tips?

I have stripped the interior out of the car today, and gotten 99% of the old foam sound insulation out (goof off is fantastic at helping get the old foam and glue residue out BTW)

I'm about to install dyamat, a Hervey foam insulation kit, and the DMCH carpet kit that I've had sitting around for a while. I have a couple of questions:

Dynamat everywhere? I have plenty. I'm thinking I'll put it in under where the foam will go on the firewall and parcel area, on the face of the plywood panel behind the seats, on the wheel arches and around the factory speaker locations under the removed plastic armrest panels and as much of the tub and tunnel as possible. Anywhere I shouldn't put it? I'm guessing that putting dynamat on the top side of the tunnel will screw up getting the center console on properly?

Assuming I put it down on the fiberglass in the firewall area, no problems then gluing the foam soundproofing onto dynamat - right?

Is the dynamat going to create any clearance problems?

I have a can of headliner glue - is that the same thing as carpet glue or do I need to go hunt that down?

Any advice appreciated...

Bump - 41 views - anyone have any tips? - I'm getting back to work soon.

I'll post pics later.

T

Use peal n seal instead of dynamat. It is much cheaper and you can get it at hardware stores such as Lowes and Home Depot.

It's pretty straightforward. I just installed Dynamat in the rear section (all around the bulkhead and rear deck). The only thing to note is: I put it all along the wheel arches, then tried to put the factory foam on top just for an extra layer... the bulkhead trim does not fit well with this arrangement. I ended up just trashing the factory foam and sticking with just the Dynamat for that area. No problems.

I used another 1/2" sound-deadening foam on top of the Dynamat to replace the factory foam in all places (except the wheel arches, of course).

Also, I took out all of the electrics behind the seats and installed the Dynamat directly to the fiberglass, as opposed to the wood shelf panels - this way the ugly Dynamat doesn't show if you slide/remove the parcel shelf carpet. I skipped applying it to the "second bulkhead" (vertical wood panel) for the same reason. There's already about a 1/4" layer of sealant in there, plus the wood panel.

Here's how it looked before adding the second soundproofing layer on top:

http://www.noroads.com/delorean/proj...s/DSC_2058.jpg

You can't see it from that photo, but the Dynamat extends all underneath the console and onto the floor. I ran out, but will do the rest at some point.

Good luck.

Travis

Not to contradict, but I strongly suggest against Peel N Seel. It's an asphalt based product, not butyl like dynamat. Over a few years the asphault will break down and become brittle, thus not dampening the panels anymore. That's the best case scenario! Worst case will be on an extremely hot day it will actually liquify and make a complete mess of everything. I've seen pictures of this happening, not in a DeLorean though. Certainly something where it's worth spending the money on the right stuff.

I purchased a big roll or a dynamat competitor, but still butyl. It seems to have the same specs, but not the dynamat logo.

Travis, are you happy with the results?

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Originally Posted by TTait

Travis, are you happy with the results?

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I have yet to do a real road test - there's still no engine on the other side. I did the next best thing, though: turned "The Boneyard" up really loud on the radio and sat inside :) It seemed effective.

Travis

I just put new carpet in my car and I just removed the old and installed the new. It's a tight fit with out having that extra pading under the carpet. I drove it and the inside sounded fine to me. However I had a little motor problem that turned into a Stage 2 upgrade so I might go back and add that pading but Ill see how load it gets inside.

Travis,

I followed your lead and lifted out the drivers side electronics tray no problem - but the question is now raised - did you do the same thing with the fuse box tray on the passenger side? It looks from the parts diagram like there are two screws holding it in, as two as two rivets, maybe?

It looks like it could just flip inboard pretty easily, but I don't want to test that as a theory without more information. Did you co it?

Tom

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Originally Posted by TTait

It looks from the parts diagram like there are two screws holding it in, as two as two rivets, maybe?

It looks like it could just flip inboard pretty easily, but I don't want to test that as a theory without more information.

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I took both sides out - the relay/fuse tray will remove in a similar fashion to the computer tray. There are two small black (M5 or so) machine screws attaching it to rivnuts. It sounds like your car may be missing the ones on the driver's side - they should both attach this way.

I detached the wiring harness connectors from the bulkhead frame (requires detaching that from the fiberglass and moving it out a bit), removed the large ground connection, then removed the relay tray - at that point, the whole assembly can be moved out of the way.

As an aside, all of those rivnuts and bulkhead holes means cutting the Dynamat out around them. I cut them out as I went. A roller helps to make an indention show up clearly through the Dynamat as you roll over them.

Good luck. And also, let us know how your road test goes when you get there!

Travis

I had those screws on both side, just neglected to mention them.

I've been wondering about finding the holes, didn't know they would telegraph that well. I considered getting one of those dual head laser pointer things that you mount to the garage ceiling to park your car in the same spot every time. Figured I could "mark" the location of two screw holes at a time with it before the mat goes in and then cut them out based on the laser pointer.

I added Dynamat in my delorean 3 years ago. The complete back side, cargo area, on the rear wall, and inside of the wooden back plate, the rear wheel wells, all over the bottom,..; But I can not say it is much quieter... honestly.... can not hear any difference!! This was an expensive add-on and was not worth the high cost and extra weight you're driving along with all the time.
But it did not interfear with my console or any other part. The only thing worth mentioning is that the rear wheel wells became thicker of course, and I needed to grind the opening on the wheel wells in that board to get some more space.
Perfect fit afterwards.

john

For REALLY good soundproofing, a lot more is needed than just Dynamat.

Dynamat is designed to reduce resonance of panels. In our cars, the floorboards under your feet, and the bottom of the shelf after the worst offenders. If nothing else, put Dynamat on these areas, directly to the fiberglass.

The next steps of soundproofing, now that the resonance is reduced, is to block and absorb the sound. Certain foams can be really good at absorbing sound. Unfortunately to get the really low tones, impractically thick foam is needed. So a 1/2 inch of good closed cell foam will do decent at absorbing the higher tones. Finally, blocking the sound is accomplished with loaded mass damper. This is a really dense piece of vinyl. 1lbs per square foot is good. Attaching it on top of the closed cell foam will decouple it from the panel its attached to, further blocking any leftover resonance from the panel. Optionally, a second layer of this (1/2" foam/loaded mass damper) would improve it even more.

Looking at the stock soundproofing, you can tell a similar practice was used, but with lower quality materials than available today. Plus the original stuff is all dried and cracking now.

For best results, Dynamat only needs to have about 50% coverage in the middle of a large panel (however I myself have 100% coverage as well). Then the foam and mass damper need to be formed exactly over all areas and sealed to the surface (contact cement or strong spray adhesive).

I'm even considering removing the stock foam on the back of the carpet, then using a new high density foam and mass damper under the carpets.

Took a break today, back on it tomorrow - 90% of Dynamat in, and the SpecialT/KenK soundproofing kit is ready to go in. I need a little help here too.

Many of the pieces in the foam kit from Ken are self explanatory, but a few are leaving me puzzled.

Looking at the large piece that goes behind the rear vertical trimboard. I have not yet removed the foam from the trimboard, and was about to. What I notice is that the new insulating pad comes out far enough to overlap with where the foam on the rear trimboard is, but not the full width of the trim board. I would like to remove all the trimboard foam and just use your neoprene, but was it intended that I just trim back the foam and leave it in place at the outer extremes of the board?

For the center of the parcel shelf, I’m assuming that the closed cell foam goes down first, and then the heavy rubber over it.

Pontoon Wall left and right are like the parts diagram. The rubber pads for under the electrics panels are self explanatory.

Now look at the attached pic.

I believe two of the remaining 4 pieces are for the pontoon roof, but but the design appears different from the stock design, and I’m trying to get this right. I’ve attached a photo with A-D designations on the four remaining pieces – I’m guessing two of them are pontoon roof, and the other two?

Finally, I’m planning on using the pictured spray adhesive to put these parts in. If anyone needs to suggest a different product let me know?

Thanks for any help.

Tom

Making progress - still not sure where to install A above.

Properly fitting the carpet piece with cutouts for the battery and storage area right behind the seats is proving challenging - any advice on where to start first would help.

Tom

Here are my pictures of what I have finally completed. The pictures show a combination of Dynamat Extreme and eDead 120 from Elemental Designs Corporation.

Sound Deadening - for interior to be attached to Glass Reinforced Plastic (GRP) body
eDead 120 is 115-120 mils thick and has self adhesive on one side and aluminum foil on the other with Bytul Rubber in between. It is sold by the square foot so you can buy as little or as much as you need. One square foot weighs approximately 16oz or one pound.
http://www.edesignaudio.com/

Products like eDead 120 are much cheaper than Dynamat and as good or better.
More products below.

Vibration Dampers, Noise Barriers, Rattles & Squeaks
http://www.secondskinaudio.com/

Other noise insulating manufacturers.
http://www.soundcoat.com/
http://www.emtechinc.net/insulation.htm

One thing I noticed since adding the over priced Dynamat Extreme and eDead 120 is that engine noise and noise from the rear tires is reduced but not completely eliminated. This stuff is NOT sound proofing it’s better described as sound reducing.
I can now hear gear whine when accelerating and decelerating from my five speed manual trans. and I can hear wind noise and front tire noise. So I conclude that reducing one noise brings out the others that I wasn’t aware of until now.
The only thing I can think of to reduce all the noise is a good, modern, loud, booming stereo.

I'm using FatMat, again much cheaper than Dynamat but a comparable product. I'm also installing the Hervey insulation, and a DMCH carpet kit. Photos shortly.

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Originally Posted by TTait

I'm using FatMat, again much cheaper than Dynamat but a comparable product. I'm also installing the Hervey insulation, and a DMCH carpet kit. Photos shortly.

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!Caution!

FatMat is a cheap asphault knockoff, identical to Peel N Seel. I would not put this in the car.

Is the rubber insulation kit from Hervey the same thickness as the original stuff? I'd like to get it mainly for the parcel shelf, and wanted to know if it sat lower than the two wooden covers for the electronics.

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Originally Posted by Chris 16409

Is the rubber insulation kit from Hervey the same thickness as the original stuff?

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Yes, it is.
On the parcel shelf you get one foam triangle piece and one rubber triangle piece.
I first removed the old stinky foam on the back wall and parcel shelf and cleaned with danatured alcohol.
Then I put on one layer of Dynamat Extreme on the back wall and one layer on the parcel shelf.
I bought the Dynamat Extreme at full retail price (BOY what a waste of money!). Later I learned of the eDead 120.
On my parcel shelf is one layer of Dynamat Extreme then Hervey’s foam pad then on top Hervey’s rubber pad.

I haven't done this yet but it's on my "to-do, eventually" list, so thanks to Mark Vanyo for all the excellent and informative photos!

Farrar

I have done more or less the same, but you went into far more details behind the seats. Looks very good, well done.
btw; I loved the expression "overpriced" Dynamat, right on!

John

A friend of mine did my wife's (then girlfriend) Lexus with dynamat when we put a system in it a few years back. That stuff was dreadful. Once its in it never comes out. Plus its heavy messy and yeah on a hot day it had a tenancy to ooze a little. The dealer gave us such a hard time when the lease was up (i advised against using it in the first place, but like most women she just did it anyway). Don't know how it is now but i'll never use it again

I purchased a huge roll of the off brand stuff from ebay for my z600 restoration and the remainder went in the front wells of the D, it isnt hugely quieter but i did notice less tire noise. im very pleased with how it went in the honda, however ive yet to drive it and find how good of a job its doing.


http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...0/IMG_4087.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...0/IMG_4090.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...0/IMG_4086.jpg

That was a fair amount of work, plus all the "while your in there" stuff I wanted to do at the same time.

One tip to file away - spray on interior adhesive has a way of getting on your hands. Before you start to use that or any other vaguely annoying adhesive, set a can of Pam out next to the kitchen sink.

Multiple times I had glue on my fingers and had to stop and clean up before things got out of (or stuck to?) hand. At first soap and water sucked. Finally with one particularly bad mess I sprayed with vegetable oil and rubbed vigorously, and the glue all dissolved. later it worked on super glue too (unrelated to the car). Oil up, then soap and water.

If anyone has any questions about the job - let me know.

Tom

And both road noise and engine noise are reduced. The stereo sounds better, but half of that is better speakers too...

Just wanted to add three more pictures to my post number 16 above regarding my sound insulation install I did a while back. The pictures speak for themselves.

I will be doing this project after the first of the year.

I have a bunch of questions/comments, so please bear with me.....

1. This question was asked already, but never answered: Does adding sound deadener to the top of the center console area cause fitment issues?

2. Weren't the later built cars sprayed with undercoating on the fiberglass underneath the car? Wouldn't this act as a sound barrier as well and be beneficial if you carefully masked off any areas that the undercoating would cause future issues with?

3. Being lucky to work in business that has some options on sound-reducing material, I did some research looking at the below products side-by-side:

-http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performan...70500/10002/-1

JEGS 'Quiet Ride' Ultra Sound Deadening / Heat Barrier Kit.

- http://www.jegs.com/i/Dynamat/327/10455/10002/-1

Dynamat Xtreme Insulation

-http://www.jegs.com/i/Thermo+Tec/893/14720/10002/-1

Thermo-Tec Suppressor Acoustical & Heat Control Mats

All three measured very close in thickness with a micrometer and other than the foil design, looked nearly identical.

So it came down to price/area.

The Dynamat was way more expensive for less coverage. The Jegs actually came in second place. The Thermotech actually was the best bang-for-buck.

So I will be going with the Thermotech supersonic material to lay down first. Then I will put Hervey's kit on top of it. Am I supposed to glue all of the Hervey pieces on top of the first layer? Jim taled about a second and third layer to put on top of the dynomat/thermotech layer. On the areas other than what the Hervey pieces cover, what all would you recommend specifically(links/websites)?

Is there any benefit to putting any sound reducer under the headliner? I do not want to add any weight to the doors, so I understand that area is off limits.

I will be installing a new reproduction dash as well. i already plan on loading it with thermotech sound deadening material. Is there any other places on or under the dash that would benefit from the material to reduce front wheel/road noise?

Thanks for all of the help!

I'm no sound engineer so take these comments as those purely from a scientist and Delorean owner.

Being that the whole body tub has a degree of flex to it, it acts like a giant drum. Vibration from the road surface, wind and flex of the car makes the large surface areas of fiberglass vibrate and generate low frequencies. I have sound deadening material applied like many of us do, and while it certainly cuts down on road noise, engine noise and much exterior noise in general, the low frequency body tub noise is still present. I don't see how we can get rid of that short of stiffening the fiberglass. High frequencies are the most obvious and immediately annoying, so yes, getting rid of them is rewarding. The "drone" of the very low frequency tub vibrations are responsible for that tiring kind of noise that just wears you out over time....... Hard to fully put into words, but if you've driven a Delorean for any period of time I think you know what I mean.

That said, has anyone tried taking any other approaches to negating these low frequencies? Attaching stiffening braces on the fiberglass? Active sound cancellation (this screams for Bistsyncmaster's ingenuity to tackle)? Others? Stephen at DMCH and I were talking about this and he believes the new tubs they are making will be stiffer due to the improved materials and construction and should therefore be much less resonant. That would be nice indeed.

My unscientific answer to question 1.
No. I don’t believe adding sound deadener will cause any fitment issues. The eDead120 I used is about 1/8” (3mm) thick. So if you attach it to the fiberglass body under the center console you will raise the center console about 1/8”. Or just cut and remove the sound deadener around the threaded studs and this will allow the metal brackets under the console to lay against the fiberglass body like they were designed.

My unscientific answer to question 2.
I thought the later DeLoreans had a black undercoating on just the epoxy coated mild steel frame and not on the fiberglass tub.
The factory applied undercoating depending how thick and heavy it is I can’t imagine it does any sound insulating.

Answer to question 3.
My preference is on the material I mention in my posts 16 and 27.
As far as gluing down which layer first? I like the explanation given by
http://www.secondskinaudio.com/
1. Since vibrations can only be reduced when a damper is making full contact with the sheet metal, vibration damping will always be the first and most important part of any sound deadening project. (Example foil lined self adhesive sound deadener of your choice).
2. After treating the vibrations and structure borne noise with a sound deadener the next step is to block the airborne sound waves with a mass loaded noise barrier. (Example John Hervey’s neoprene noise barrier).
3. After the cars interior is properly treated with a vibration damper and a noise barrier, the last of the 3 steps is to treat the back side of your cars upholstery with one of our gasketing foams. (Example I personally used ¼” (7mm) white closed cell foam on the back of the carpeted pieces but first I ripped out the old cheap foam).

I don’t imagine there is much gain at all putting sound reducer under the headliner where it attaches to the fiberglass body. That portion has a hollow steel box glued on top of it which is hidden under the SS roof panel (T Panel).

First and foremost attach sound deadening inside the cabin on the surfaces where the four wheels are. They are the biggest noise makers. I put sound deadening all along under the carpets because the fiberglass sounds like a hollow drum when you smack it with you knuckle.
You only need sound deadening where the reverse side is outside of the car. Meaning you wouldn’t put it on the dash board because the underside is still inside the car. Put it where the outside noise is trying to get into the car ruining your driving experience.

It’s a lot of dead weight in a DeLorean with not much going for it unless you have an engine upgrade.

I put Fatmat in the doors of my Mustang and I agree, that stuff oozes everywhere. Unfortunately I put it on the floorboards of my D before I found this out. It's actually doing a decent job of cutting out the road noise. I like hearing the engine though so I don't want to cut too much of that out. And if there is droning it doesn't bother me. I have a V8 Mustang with dual exhaust, NOTHING out-drones her. She'll make you go insane on long drives.

I'm wasting time today watching the "Cool Tools" Marathon on the DIY channel. anyway they showed a sound deadening product for walls in houses. I went to their web site and they have a material for vehicles.

http://www.acoustiblok.com/automotive-soundproofing.php

Does anyone know anything about it?

Here's the info from their website.

Automotive Soundproofing / Sound Damping

As with its many other applications and uses, Acoustiblok is an excellent product to use in automotive applications. It works exceptionally well, far better than other materials when installed correctly. Acoustiblok is made in the U.S.A. from all U.S. materials.

Sound Damping Speakers

If you're looking to make a speaker sound better in the door one needs to completely adhere (do not spot glue here) the material to as much of the metal door surface as possible inside the door. Use the Acoustiblok Fast Cure Industrial Adhesive and the Acoustigrip tape where needed. Do not use a substitute glue as many adhesives and tapes will hold initially but after a few weeks will lose the adhesion to the Acoustiblok. The object here is to create significantly more mass in the speaker enclosure (in this case the door). The speaker mounting should be as airtight as possible. We suggest using the Acousticaulk. It is of course imperative that after all your speakers are installed you verify polarity. Each speaker should move out when connected to the + side of a low-voltage battery. A simple 9 V battery touched to each speaker wire allows you to visually see the cone move in or out. Of course there is much more sophisticated equipment for doing this as well.

Eliminating Road Noise

If you're looking to prevent road noise through the floorboards first take one layer and completely (do not spot glue) adhere Acoustiblok to the floorboards (using a heat gun helps situations where the Acoustiblok needs to be formed around certain protrusions in the floor). Here again we are looking to create mass in a vibrating surface. Over the top of that layer lay the Acoustiblok-Wallcover™ material covering as much area as possible. This material includes the second layer of Acoustiblok with the needed mechanical isolation layer incorporated into it allowing it to reduce the airborne noise.

Engine Noise

The waterproof Acoustiblok will not mold, age, rot, or have any UV problems, however it will not function well in the engine compartment as at about 250° it will begin to lose consistency.

If you have to reduce engine noise or need Acoustiblok in high-temperature areas, we have had great success by first insulating the high-temperature area or item with Thermablok aerogel material. This method works exceptionally well and is used in military applications as well as offshore oil rig installations when the noise source is extremely hot

So some people have dynamatted in the cubby hole, and under the fuel electronics as well as under the fuse and relay panel...but what about in the battery storage area? I know....probably doesn't make much sense but if I had extra, hey what the hell right? What about anywhere on the doors? (Upper and lower on doors)

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Originally Posted by GS450-Junkie

So some people have dynamatted in the cubby hole, and under the fuel electronics as well as under the fuse and relay panel...but what about in the battery storage area? I know....probably doesn't make much sense but if I had extra, hey what the hell right? What about anywhere on the doors? (Upper and lower on doors)

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Doing the door and roof panels would provide a lot of sound deadening benifit, but the impact of all that weight on the doors is not good with respect to wear and tear on the torsion bars.

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Originally Posted by DMCMW Dave

Doing the door and roof panels would provide a lot of sound deadening benifit, but the impact of all that weight on the doors is not good with respect to wear and tear on the torsion bars.

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Which can easily be remedied by swapping your stainless steel door guides for plastic ones, and swapping out the lock solenoid for an actuator from DMCNW.

I'm nearly done doing just this to my passenger door. Drivers door will follow. Detailed information to happen hopefully sometime this weekend.

I've personally not added a "ton" of dynamat, only just enough in all the right places. Additional more effective soundproofing comes in other forms which I'll post about as well. Not all of it is light either though.

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Originally Posted by dmc6960

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I've personally not added a "ton" of dynamat, only just enough in all the right places.

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I'd be very curious where the right places are as I am determined to quiet my cabin, and I've already lightened the doors significantly with DPNW's actuators (though I wouldn't swap my stainless pin guides in a million years)

What about in footwells, around doors, and under the plastic panels that hold the rear speakers? If a guy wanted to get pretty detailed with it he could. I'm assuming the biggest and most important areas to cover would be back parcel area, floor, and under center console. Maybe I'll call those good enough.

Ordered some more Dynamat, so while I wait for that to come....let me ask some interior questions. I ordered John Hervey's Sound Proofing Rubber Mat Kit. Where do the smaller shaped pieces go? Anyone have pictures? Which ones are glued in place, and what did you use to secure them?

I'd like to powder coat most of the metal pieces inside the car that need it i.e. seat pieces, shifter stick, radio bracket, fuse panel, Fuel electronics panel, etc. Anyone ever do this? Just wondering if certain parts are worth the trouble, and if things like the front panel (holds clock) can be powder-coated and what they would look like when done in black or other colors.

I'd like to add some additional speakers in the rear parcel shelf, and a sub in the cubby hole. Is there anything I need to know about installation? (Never added a sub in a car before, or any radio equipment actually). I did replace the factory rear speakers with newer ones, but should I just disconnect those and leave them there...then run a pair of 6X9's instead plus the sub for better sound? Or should I leave the new rear speakers hooked up in addition to the others I want to add?

What do I need to know about headliners? Should they be put in at the same time as a windshield replacement for ease or does it not matter? Do I use glue? Never pulled one out before....

My car has always been missing the power door lock system. A little embarrassed to say, but I don't even know what they look like, what I need, what I am missing, where everything gets mounted, etc. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. I think all that stuff was completely ripped out a long time ago. So please teach me everything I need to know....and feel free to treat me like a newbie on the topic. How it works, what I need, what to look for, etc.

I bought a center console kit....anyone install one of those before? How hard is it, and do you have any tips?

The small center console cover (window switches mount in it)... as far as I know they are not available...what can I do with mine if it's all nasty?? Any options out there?

How do I install that damn metal battery strap clamp?? I'm scratching my head on that one.... Did anyone ever install like a quick release or something like that?

Where does a Joe Cool unit typically mount?

My mode switch will not turn more than one click. Will a repair kit from DMCH fix this?

What's the latest on AC panel LED's? I bought a kit from Houston about 5 years ago, and am just tearing into the interior now. I seem to remember people saying to avoid them more recently. What's up with those? I may just leave the old bulbs in there, and do the mod so they only come on with the headlights.

That should suffice for now.....

The judicious use of strips and pads can be as effective as a blanket but it will take sound testing to know just how to do it. What you are trying to do is change the mass balance so the surfaces do not resonate. This approach won't help insulate but you can use much lighter materiel to do that. You have to be careful how you do the doors. Even switching to actuators and plastic guides may not be enough.
David Teitelbaum

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Originally Posted by GS450-Junkie

Ordered some more Dynamat, so while I wait for that to come....let me ask some interior questions. I ordered John Hervey's Sound Proofing Rubber Mat Kit. Where do the smaller shaped pieces go? Anyone have pictures? Which ones are glued in place, and what did you use to secure them?

--------and a bunch more unrelated questions.

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You should break this up into several posts on several topics.

The small pieces go to fill in the dead spaces at the far ends of the back panel, i.e. one under the engine cover release and one under in front of the bulkhead. Not sure about the others.