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Spectra brand pumps are smaller (in every dimension) than your original Airtex unit -- you could try one of those.
Is your new Airtex pump itself the same size as an E8012S? If so, you should be able to install it in the same place (you may need to tap your carrier 1/4 NPT rather than adapt the pump to 1/8 threads.
IIRC, Steve went through a phase of relocating his pump elsewhere, but ultimately decided to go back to the tank -- perhaps he has some insights.
Bill Robertson
#5939
I was thinking about relocating it, but after consideration I decided the stock fuel pump location is one of the few things DMC got right.Quote:
Originally Posted by content22207
So instead of trying to make my current Made In USA pump fit, I should buy a Made In China pump and throw away the $64 I spent on the Made In USA pump?Quote:
Originally Posted by content22207
No; it is slightly taller owing to the larger fittings at the top and bottom.Quote:
Originally Posted by content22207
I can't; none of the hardware stores in my area sell NPT thread taps. This and a lack of time on my hands is why I decided to use a reducing coupling instead. The end of the coupling adds only about 1/8" height to the assembly (under the pump, inside the carrier, screwed into the pipe cap). A close nipple then screws into that reducing coupling to poke through the pipe cap at the bottom. A female/female coupling screws onto the close nipple sticking out of the pipe cap, and into the other side of that coupling is screwed the pickup screen. There are no bare threads showing; this is as short as it will get.Quote:
Originally Posted by content22207
I hope that is clear; if not, I will try to take a picture when I get home tonight.
He has never mentioned this to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by content22207
I guess I am being punished for deviating from Bill's prescribed fuel pump assembly. What a shame; I thought my carma was pretty good.
Farrar
I will not tolerate my army of minions deviating from lock step orthodoxy!
If you feel like running a new fuel line down the driver's side of the frame (you, John, and I are the only ones on the passenger side), there is plenty of room to mount a pump to the firewall:
Attachment 4384
Bill Robertson
#5939
I am not sure there is enough room for another hose next to the giant a/c hose running along the frame -- even a 1/4" one. I will give it a try, though, when I can next raise the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by content22207
One other question: How do I mount the fuel pump bracket without being able to hold a nut on the other side of the firewall?
Farrar
There's an A/C hose on the passenger side too....
Every conversion from Steve forward has run the fuel line down the driver's side (Bob ran his through the frame because his car was already significantly disassembled). It's actually easier than the passenger side because you don't have to contend with the heater core pipes.
The pump would have to be mounted with a screw (big screw -- #12 or #14). It would probably be easiest turn the bracket so the screw is underneath the pump, like this:
Attachment 4439
I'm only suggesting a driver's side fuel line because I don't know if you could make a sharp enough U turn to use your current fuel line. A/C and heater core lines would require the pump to be mounted on the driver's side of the boot.
Bill Robertson
#5939
I fake-mounted the bracket for the fuel pump to the firewall, and it, too hits the access panel. Bill, your car's body molds must have been different from mine.
What a waste. I guess I am going to have to throw away that $64 pump, hope that O'Reilly accepts a return on the other $64 pump I bought as a spare, then go somewhere else and see if I can buy a Spectra unit like Steven uses.
Rats. I was looking forward to using a higher-quality fuel pump.
Farrar
Scoot it over further (behind the tank filler hose). I just test fitted an E8012S -- I can get it all the way behind the lip easily. You won't be able to put a hose clamp on it in that position, but you could attach the fuel line with the pump loose, then put it in the bracket with the fuel line already attached.
Bill Robertson
#5939
If that's the case, why not just mount the bracket right-side up and stick the bolt through the fiberglass above the access cover? I will have another look tomorrow and see if that is possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by content22207
... but not before dousing myself with Deet or something. The last time I was outside for five minutes I averaged a mosquito bite every minute!
Farrar
Pump has to go against the firewall. Mounted against the lip it would protrude into the spare tire well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrar
Bill Robertson
#5939
I was thinking of installing the bracket backwards -- flat side toward the spare tire well.Quote:
Originally Posted by content22207
Farrar
On another note, I know now why the thermostatic switch in our cooling system is called an "Otter-stat" or "Otter switch." It's named after the company that made it -- which is evidently still in business!
Farrar
Today, I went and bought an AutoZone Made In China fuel pump and installed it. Then I went to O'Reilly and returned my Made In U.S.A. fuel pump. The Made in China pump fits and runs. Now all I have to do is charge the battery and see if the car will start. (Currently, the battery reads less than 10v and the starter won't fire.)
It was so hot outside today that my foot felt like it was on fire after a few minutes. When I wondered what was happening, I realized that I was wearing a black shoe and standing in direct sunlight. My tools were almost too hot to touch after about thirty minutes. Now I know why people who can't afford a garage at least have a carport -- your tools won't blister your fingers if they're in the shade.
I have to take the car to a music video filming next Sunday. Looks like I will drive there sweating all the way!
Farrar
I was chastised once by one of the supposed gurus of our community for calling that switch an "otterstat" instead of a "thermal switch," but as you can clearly see on Page M:18:10 of the Workshop Manual, that is what DMC itself called it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrar
Bill Robertson
#5939
Awesome. I still haven't installed my made in china pump yet. Perhaps I should wait and let you be the guinea pig.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrar
So do Jaguar and Lotus. In fact, some Lotus vehicles of similar vintage to ours have both an "Otter switch" and a "fan fail" light and module.Quote:
Originally Posted by content22207
My car is a guinea pig in many ways -- most notably, the first carbureted automatic DeLorean (June of 2008).Quote:
Originally Posted by stevedmc
The Spectra pump has a 1/4" hose barb right on the top of the unit. No brass fitting required. I plan on making a fuel pump cover out of an appropriately-sized plastic lid, with a hole drilled in the middle for the fuel hose. Now the question is, which has a big enough lid: a giant tub of mayonnaise, perhaps? I don't eat mayonnaise...
Booster battery is inside now, charging. Should be able to fire up the vehicle tomorrow morning.
In other news, it's time for me to go to the hardware store and buy a bunch of stainless metric nuts. The rocker panels on my passenger side are all letting go, and I should probably replace the (seven!) seat nuts, too.
Farrar
The Home Depot's supply of metric stainless hardware evidently varies from location to location. The one near me had barely any, whereas I am sure that the one I went to on the Northshore had much more. Well, anyway ... I bought some nuts of varying size -- M5 and M6 -- in the hopes that I will be able to secure the rocker panels to the car. The right-hand rocker panel under the door seems to have only one place where it's held on with a stud and nut; the other places it is evidently suppose to clip on, and it's not holding to those clips. What's more, the plastic around which the stud is supposed to go is broken. I am hoping that I will be able to hold it on with a washer in place where the plastic is broken, but what am I supposed to do about those clips that no longer hold?
My door sills are the early style, and therefore held on with screws. Perhaps I will remove them and see if the top of those rocker panel clips are visible. If I can replace them with something more permanent, I'll gladly do it. Anyone else secured their rocker panels in some other fashion?
Farrar
Also, here is what I plan to do with my cooling fan circuit.
Attachment 4567
Farrar
Murphy's Law strikes again: now I have a 9mm socket in between the right-hand fender and the body.
:frantic:
Farrar
Ha! Damn you's Murphy!Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrar
Mr. Murphy changed his schematic :blackeye:, so if you don't want your light to work backwards, change the wire feeding the light to 87a.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrar
Got it! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron
Attachment 4591
Farrar
In other news, I think the greasy film on my windshield was definitely caused by some sort of Armor-All-type, petroleum-based product on the vinyl. A week or so ago I removed the glove box lid and it was so hot that I couldn't replace it. So the car sat for a while with a lot less vinyl on the passenger's side under the windshield versus the driver's side. And when I went outside today to clean the car a bit, I noticed a huge amount of greasy film on the driver's side and almost none on the passenger's side, except right by the A-pillar.
I bought a product from Meguiar's which is supposed to clean vinyl, as opposed to simply making it shiny, and used it liberally along with some microfiber towels to clean all of the vinyl inside the car, with the exception of the doors because -- have I mentioned this? -- it's hot outside. Then I was in cleaning mode, and I went ahead and cleaned and conditioned the seats as well. Then the glass. By the time I was done cleaning, there was no time left to try to start the car. :lol: And I didn't even get around to vacuuming...
While cleaning the dashboard, I noticed the crack at the corner of the glove box has grown. I have planned on buying a Houston replacement dash in the future, but it's not in my budget right now, so on goes the dash mat, even though it won't stay in place worth a damn.
More bad news for my wallet: the passenger-side rocker panel is barely hanging on at the front. That screw is rusted solid and the plastic which it is supposed to grip is broken. After that, going from front to back, the first clip is broken and the next few grip but allow the panel to sag. It looks like a Houston rocker panel is in my future, because with my luck if I remove the rocker panel it will break.
The car is also missing a nut which does not appear to be metric! -- While under the car, I noticed that the bolt that holds the "front fender stay" together with its two other companion pieces is missing its nut. I'd take it out to look at it but it is, of course, rusted in place. All I know is that a 5mm nut is too small and a 6mm nut is too big. So I am off to the hardware store again later this week, this time to find stainless SAE nuts, which I hope are in more plentiful supply than metric nuts.
Just for fun I bought every stainless M5 and M6 screw of less than 20mm in length that I could find at my local Home Depot; the access cover under the spare tire now has five new stainless screws holding it in place. Now I just have to source the remaining ones... by the way, whose idea was it to mix up 5mm and 6mm screws to hold that panel on? I would have picked one or the other; mixing the two just seems idiotic at that point.
New fuel pump has a hose barb built in to the top. Will have to think of a different idea for pump cover.
I've started wiring my new relay sockets. Although they are of similar design, their grooves and tongues don't fit the stock sockets, so I will have to replace every single relay socket in the compartment. I figured this, given my luck, which is why I ordered twelve of them. Also, I ordered 100 terminals along with a crimp tool, figuring it would take me a few tries to get my crimping technique down. It only took me four tries. :)
Farrar
Speaking of relays...
I will be adding three sockets to the relay compartment, in a space that was only designed to have one more. (A previous owner removed the blue "Fan Fail Module" socket before I bought the car.) However, there are a few relays/modules that I am not using, which I can remove and use their space for a new socket:
- HVAC Panel Resistor (red socket) - bypassed with a jumper wire
- Lambda relay - unused
- HVAC Panel Lights - bypassed with a jumper wire
The reason I don't need the Lambda relay socket is, of course, because I don't need a Lambda relay -- my car is carbureted. The reason I don't need the other two is because I am running LEDs in the HVAC panel. So it looks like all is well, space-wise. However, since I will be replacing all of the relay sockets, adding new ones while subtracting others, I am going to label them all.
More problematic is the fact that I have subtracted one circuit breaker from the cooling fan circuit, and will be replacing it with two circuit breakers. There are only two spots for circuit breakers back there, so I will have to think of some other way of mounting the two new ones for the fan circuit. Since the bracket behind the passenger's seat is not grounded like the one behind the driver's seat is, that gives me the option to, perhaps, simply put them where the old door lock module used to be. Ah, decisions, decisions...!
It will be a busy week: I have to do this electrical work before Sunday morning when the car is due for a video shoot!
Farrar
On another note, does anyone happen to know the size of size the screws that hold on the glove box lid? I appear to have misplaced those screws. :doh:
Farrar
New scheme for relay compartment, posted here in case I lose the piece of paper I wrote it on this morning.
Top row:
Fan Fail Bulb Relay 1 / Fan Fail Bulb Relay 2 / Starter Relay / Power Window Relay / Power Window Delay Module
Bottom row:
Cooling Fan Relay 1 / Cooling Fan Relay 2 / Courtesy Light Module / Blower Speed 4 Relay / Blower Speed 3 Relay / Hi Beam Relay / Low Beam Relay
Frustrated with the lack of stainless, metric, or stainless metric, hardware at the Home Depot and Lowe's, and the fact that the local Ace Hardware is never open when I am able to go there, I have ordered a whole bunch of hardware from McMaster-Carr.
Also some nylon hardware. Because it's hard to find ... and it gets humid down here, you know... :)
Farrar
Use black nylon M5's to hold your various trunk panels down -- some day you'll be glad you did.
Bill Robertson
#5939
Oh yeah! Mine are some crazy mixture of M5s and M6s, so I ordered a big bag of each.Quote:
Originally Posted by content22207
As fast as McMaster ships, I expect my order will be here before lunchtime Thursday.
Farrar
Or use 10-32 stainless. They are a little smaller then the M5 so will probably never get stuck. I don't even use any no-seize.Quote:
Originally Posted by content22207
Too late -- I've already ordered black nylon M5s and M6s. As I mentioned earlier, the rivnuts in Sparky's trunk are of two different sizes, plus the metal screws were eating into the fiberboard underneath the carpet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitsyncmaster
(The carpet is currently removed, since I have ditched the spare tire in lieu of a toolbox... but I plan on having a spare tire eventually -- before my next big road trip, whenever that happens to be.)
I have one of those Brother label-printer things, and started putting labels on my new relay sockets last night. Those label-printers are awesome! I was able to reduce the size of the font to make everything intelligible in the small space available. 8)
I hope to get started on the relay/fuse compartment tonight.
Farrar
My time-delay module for the power windows arrived in the mail!!! Huzzah!
Farrar
A tiny bit of progress tonight, even though work ran late and stopped me from getting any time outside with the car.
Attachment 4720
Farrar
I like it.
Thanks, Sean.
It just occurred to me looking at that photo that I should have put the labels on the bottom row upside down, since I will be looking at it from above. Oh well, it doesn't matter -- I can read upside down. :)
Someone did something very funky with my relay sockets before I bought the car: the ganged grounds are supposed to be black wire, but mine are black/red! Not only that, but some of the terminals appear to be fuse terminals, not relay terminals! What on earth?*
Oh well -- my plan was to replace any terminals which were questionable, anyway (I bought a roll of 100 relay terminals and the proper crimp tool for non-insulated terminals)... I will see if I can find where the black/red wire goes and if I can replace it with a black wire.
My guess is that some of the ground wires were compromised a while ago -- I have noticed some heat-shrink and/or electrical tape (ew!) applied on some other wires in the same area, probably where insulation got burned/melted away. Perhaps the ground wires were damaged and someone made up a quick fix with whatever they had available. If this is the case, then I expect that the black/red wire will be spliced in somewhere. If I can find that, I can replace the black/red with black and make things easier for myself in the future.
There's a wild marsh fire out in New Orleans East making the atmosphere very smoky whenever the wind picks up in my direction, so I can't get much work done outside. It looks like the rest of this project will have to wait until Saturday. Now I know why people have garages, even if they're not equipped with air handling.
Farrar
--
*Pun very much intended.
I doubt it will be that big a deal, its for sure a lot better than nothing at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrar
YEAH, I've been thinking about replacing and labeling my relays for a while now. I'm not to cheap to spend money on relays but I'm too cheap to buy a label maker. Hint, hint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrar
If that music video thing works out (I still haven't heard back from the guy) I can make you some labels on Sunday.Quote:
Originally Posted by stevedmc
Farrar
I hope you got the correct terminals. FYI: Most terminals come in parts for single circuit and are made with thicker metal and very high spring tension when mating. You would want the terminals for multi circuit connectors or you will never install and remove a relay without a 5 lb. hammer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrar
I use 42100-1 brass terminals. Digikey # A27935CT-ND
That looks like mine. Stick five in a socket and make sure you can install and remove a relay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrar
If you don't need the center pin, leave it blank. Makes removal less of a problem.
I did test for "strength" but I also have relay pliers since I have thick fingers and thumbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitsyncmaster
Speaking of the center pin: why are there two grounds on the cooling fan relays? Can I use a four-pin relay for the cooling fans without ill effects?
Farrar
Yes the 4 pin relay will work. I don't know why they grounded the fan when not powered. Maybe it had something to do with the fan fail unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrar
Thanks, Dave! :)
Farrar
Speaking of relays, I came across this online...
http://images.the12volt.com/12voltim...emotestart.gif
Ten relays just for one feature!? Holy smokes! I think if I had to wire anything this complex I'd go insane. :lol:
Farrar
Was going to get some work done on the car, but then it rained... and someone offered me two Saints tickets for free. So instead of working on the D, I saw the Saints get clobbered by the Titans 25-6... from row 1 by the Saints bench at the Superdome.
Sometimes my life is so awesome I think it's a dream I don't want to wake from.
Farrar
Awesome! Free tix are free tix and that close to the field is pretty sweet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrar
That was a good excuse not to work Farrar.
Here it comes...
Attachment 4769
I am really wishing I had replaced my trunk seal before now. :nervous:
Farrar